Creature Catalogue Overhaul Project Revisited

[Cleon]

Right, the only remaining question is the Challenge Rating.

The 3.0 version's Challenge Rating 14 is too high for them. Just compare it to the SRD's Purple Worm - the Afanc is rather similar statwise but is slightly weaker in AC and hit points and it doesn't have the Worm's Poison attack.

And a Purple Worm is CR 12.

The Afanc's Ref and Will saves are a bit better than the Worm's though, which is useful.

Contrariwise, a Dire Shark is similar conceptually and is almost as lethal while being CR 9. (That may be a poor comparison since I consider the Dire Shark to be very badly designed.)

Heck, a Tyrannosaurus is CR 8 and isn't that much weaker - then again, it's badly designed too (my Cleon Special™ Tyrannosaurus Redux "fixes the issues" but is pretty definitely under-CRd. I should really make it a CR 9 or maybe even 10 after I jazzed it up).

So I'd guesstimate the Afanc as being CR 11 or 12?

Let's call it CR 11 for the sake of argument.

That means I can tweak my proposed text from:

Afanc can tolerate brackish waters and swim up large rivers to lay their eggs, which are a prized delicacy in some nations (a complete clutch is typically worth ## to ##% of a single CR ## creature's treasure per encounter value, or ## to ## gp).

Afanc can tolerate brackish waters and swim up large rivers to lay their eggs, which are a prized delicacy in some nations (a complete clutch of roughly a hundred 1-pound eggs is typically worth 10% to 60% of a single CR 11 creature's treasure per encounter value of 7,500 gp, or 750 to 4,500 gp. The eggs are bulky and somewhat fragile but are easily preserved in a barrel of brine, vinegar, or brandy).

 

[freyar]

That is a lot! But I like pretty much all of it, including the Disguise bonus and CR 11. However, why don't we simplify the egg value to "(a complete clutch of roughly a hundred 1-pound eggs is typically worth 750 to 4,500 gp)"?

 

[Cleon]

That is a lot! But I like pretty much all of it, including the Disguise bonus and CR 11.

Updating the Afanc Working Draft.

However, why don't we simplify the egg value to "(a complete clutch of roughly a hundred 1-pound eggs is typically worth 750 to 4,500 gp)"?

I'm game simplifying it there but think we need to mention how it's calculated for the sake of Advanced Afanc. Also, I'm thinking we should give the odds of a randomly encountered afanc containing eggs.

So how about we change the statblock's Treasure: entry from "None (but see below)" to "None or goods (1 in # contain eggs worth 10-60% of treasure value)[see below]"

Let's see, a shark can carry eggs for about 6-9 months which sounds about the right length of time for an afanc, so if a female afanc gets pregnant every year that's 50-75% of the year, and if half the afanc population are female that's 25-37.5%. However, I'm leaning towards them often laying eggs every other year, which'd be 12.5% to 18.75%.

Let's just go for a nice round 20% so they clutch every 1-2 years.

So I'll update the Afanc Working Draft with:

Treasure: None or goods (1 in 5 contain eggs worth 10-60% of treasure value)[see below]

While adult afanc dwell in the sea their young live in rivers. Afanc can tolerate brackish waters and swim up large rivers every year or two to lay their eggs, which are a prized delicacy in some nations (a complete clutch of roughly a hundred 1-pound eggs is typically worth 750 to 4,500 gp). The eggs are bulky and somewhat fragile but are easily preserved in a barrel of brine, vinegar, or brandy.​

Let me know if you think any of that needs tweaking.

Alternatives based on similar but less frequent gestation periods might be:

(1 in 6 contain eggs… => "every two years to lay their eggs"
(1 in 8 contain eggs… => "every two or three years to lay their eggs"
(1 in 10 contain eggs… => "every three or four years to lay their eggs"
(1 in 12 contain eggs… => "every three to five years to lay their eggs"

I'd be willing to go along with any of the above alternatives, but like the 1 in 8 one the best. Octahedrons need love too!

 

[freyar]

I like the treasure and egg entries you have as is. I could go for either 1 in 5 or 1 in 8. I tried an online die roller and came up with 1 in 8.

These seem ready to me. Ready to move on to the young?

 

[Cleon]

I like the treasure and egg entries you have as is. I could go for either 1 in 5 or 1 in 8. I tried an online die roller and came up with 1 in 8.

These seem ready to me. Ready to move on to the young?

Updating the Afanc Working Draft.

These seem ready to me. Ready to move on to the young?

Yes, they look done to me so let's move on to the offspring.

Here's the original stats, minimalist as they are:

Afanc [MCA1 (1994)]

Young afanc: Young afanc (up to 15 feet long) may inhabit rivers. They have 5 HD each and roam in packs of 3d6 members. Six or more can form a whirlpool equivalent to an adult’s. Their flipper damage is 1d4 and their bite damage is 3d4.

Here's the Al-Qadim version, which is basically identical except for the regional flavour:

Afanc (Gawwar Samakat) [City of Delights (1993)]

Young Afanc
Young afanc (up to 15 feet long) may be encountered in rivers. They have 5 HD each and roam in packs of 3d6 individuals. A pack of six or more can form a whirlpool as an adult. Their flipper damage is 1d4 and their bite damage is 3d4.

If we scale down the Adult Afanc by two size categories to Large, we get:

Armor Class: 15 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 14
Full Attack: Bite (1d8+4); or 2 flippers (1d6+2)
Abilities: Str 19, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 6, Wis 13, Cha 10

I think I'd rather tweak those numbers slightly, to say:

Armor Class: 16 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +6 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 15
Full Attack: Bite (1d8+6); or 2 flippers (1d4+3)
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 13, Con 18, Int 6, Wis 13, Cha 10

A Huge Afanc (Advanced to 9 Hit Dice) would then have:

Armor Class: 17 (–2 size, +9 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 17
Full Attack: Bite (2d8+10); or 2 flippers (1d6+5)
Abilities: Str 31, Dex 11, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 13, Cha 10

A typical young afanc would likely be around 12 to 15 feet long and weigh 800 to 2,000 pounds. Any smaller than that and they don't attack man-sized creatures and are hard to distinguish from a dull-coloured carp. A newly hatched afanc would only be about a foot long and a pound in weight going by the weight we've given for the eggs.

Huge afancs would then be 25 to 30 feet long and weigh 3 to 8 tons.

I presume all the afanc in a "pack" will likely be of roughly the same size and probably siblings from the same clutch of eggs. Since they're evil and fairly dim, the kids likely favour the "big fish eat small fish" philosophy.

 

[Cleon]

For the Special Abilities, are we giving them Capsizing Ram and Swallow Whole as well as the Whirlpool that's mentioned in the original? I don't see why they shouldn't have Swallow, but I'm not quite decided on the Ram attack. Maybe have a young afanc gain it at Huge size?

For the Whirlpool, I'd just have it work like the adult version (including sizes and times) except it requires six or more Large Afanc or two or more Huge Afanc to maintain and it seems easier to just have the Reflex save against bludgeoning damage be a flat DC 25 for 2d6 damage rather than have it be calculated based on the numbers, Strength and HD of the participating Afanc. The break enchantment could require a flat DC 20 as well rather than HD-based just to make it a bit simpler.

 

[freyar]

Your proposed "tweaked" ability scores work for me.

I would give them Swallow Whole and the Whirlpool like you describe. I lean toward leaving the Capsizing Ram off, even for the Huge ones, but you could convince me otherwise I guess.

 

[Cleon]

Your proposed "tweaked" ability scores work for me.

I would give them Swallow Whole and the Whirlpool like you describe.

Updating the Afanc Working Draft.

I'm thinking we should add a qualifier to the Whirlpool SA since it's slightly different from the adult version. Maybe "Youthful Whirlpool?"

I lean toward leaving the Capsizing Ram off, even for the Huge ones, but you could convince me otherwise I guess.

How about we give the Huge version some kind of Capsizing special attack that isn't Ramming? There's precedent for Huge creatures to be able to capsize vessels (the SRD Dragon Turtle) and maybe the juveniles don't have the oversized armored heads of the adults, which presumably is what they use for ramming.

Something like:

Advanced Young Afanc
If an afanc advances to Huge size it gains the Capsizing Collision special attack described below.

Capsizing Collision (Ex): As a full-round action, a submerged afanc can swim up to double speed (80 feet) and crash into a waterborn target. The afanc must move at least 30 ft. and end in the target's space. This attack deals 2d6+10 points of damage. If the target is a creature it can attempt either an attack of opportunity or a DC 24 Reflex save for half damage. The save DC is Strength-based.

If it crashes into a vessel, the young afanc makes a Strength check with a +8 size bonus (total modifier +18 for a typical Huge afanc) against a DC based on the vessel: rowboat DC 18, launch* DC 26, keelboat DC 30, sailing ship or longship DC 38, warship DC 42, or galley DC 45. If the Strength check succeeds the vessel is violently shaken (see below), and the afanc then make another Strength check with a –4 penalty (typical modifier +14, same target DCs). If the second Strength check succeeds, the vessel capsizes and immediately begins to sink.

If the young afanc succeeds at a Strength check, every creature aboard the vessel must make a DC 20 Reflex saving throw (they may substitute a Balance check or Climb check for this Reflex save), increasing to DC 24 if the vessel capsizes. Failure means the creature takes 1d6 points of damage from being thrown about by the impact and must succeed at an additional Balance or Reflex save (DC 20, or DC 28 for capsizing vessels) to avoid being knocked prone; if the creature fails the second save by 5 or more they will be hurled overboard if they're on deck. The initial save DC is Strength-based and includes a –4 penalty if the vessel didn't capsize.

*Launches are described in Stormwrack.

A typical Huge afanc has the following statistics.

Afanc Adolescent (Huge Magical Beast; Hit Dice: 9d10+54 (103 hp); Init: +0; Speed: Swim 40 ft. (8 squares); AC: 17 (–2 size, +9 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 17; Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+27; Attack: Bite +17 melee (2d6+10); Full Attack: Bite +17 melee (2d6+10) and 2 flippers +15 melee (1d6+5); Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.; Special Attacks: Capsizing collision, improved grab, swallow whole, whirlpool; Special Qualities: Amphibious, low-light vision, scent; Saves: Fort +12, Ref +6, Will +4; Abilities: Str 31, Dex 11, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 13, Cha 10; Skills: Listen +7, Spot +7, Swim +18; Feats: Multiattack, Second feat, Third feat, Fourth feat; CR: 7)

Adolescent afancs are generally 25 to 30 feet long and weigh 3 to 8 tons.

 

[freyar]

"Youthful Whirlpool" is good.

The Capsizing Collision looks a lot like the Capsizing Ram. What if we simplify it by removing the jostling around and just give it the damage and chance to capsize the boat?

Capsizing Collision (Ex): As a full-round action, a submerged afanc can swim up to double speed (80 feet) and crash into a waterborn target. The afanc must move at least 30 ft. and end in the target's space. This attack deals 2d6+10 points of damage. If the target is a creature it can attempt either an attack of opportunity or a DC 24 Reflex save for half damage. The save DC is Strength-based.

If it crashes into a vessel, the young afanc makes a Strength check with a +8 size bonus (total modifier +18 for a typical Huge afanc) against a DC based on the vessel: rowboat DC 18, launch* DC 26, keelboat DC 30, sailing ship or longship DC 38, warship DC 42, or galley DC 45. If the Strength check succeeds, the vessel takes another 2d6+10 damage, and the afanc then make another Strength check with a –4 penalty (typical modifier +14, same target DCs). If the second Strength check succeeds, the vessel capsizes and sinks in 1d10 minutes.

I'm not worried about the precise values in the red text so much, just want to make it somewhat less effective than the adult's ram.

 

[Cleon]

"Youthful Whirlpool" is good.

The Capsizing Collision looks a lot like the Capsizing Ram. What if we simplify it by removing the jostling around and just give it the damage and chance to capsize the boat?

Capsizing Collision (Ex): As a full-round action, a submerged afanc can swim up to double speed (80 feet) and crash into a waterborn target. The afanc must move at least 30 ft. and end in the target's space. This attack deals 2d6+10 points of damage. If the target is a creature it can attempt either an attack of opportunity or a DC 24 Reflex save for half damage. The save DC is Strength-based.

If it crashes into a vessel, the young afanc makes a Strength check with a +8 size bonus (total modifier +18 for a typical Huge afanc) against a DC based on the vessel: rowboat DC 18, launch* DC 26, keelboat DC 30, sailing ship or longship DC 38, warship DC 42, or galley DC 45. If the Strength check succeeds, the vessel takes another 2d6+10 damage, and the afanc then make another Strength check with a –4 penalty (typical modifier +14, same target DCs). If the second Strength check succeeds, the vessel capsizes and sinks in 1d10 minutes.

I'm not worried about the precise values in the red text so much, just want to make it somewhat less effective than the adult's ram.

If you want to soften the effects, how about cutting out the sinking, so the vessel just floats upside-down? The original SRD Dragon Turtle's Capsize makes no mention that the vessel sinks.

Also, the proposal would double the Strength modifier if the Str check succeeds, resulting in 4d6+20 damage. Since the adult's "regular" ram damage of 4d8+12 uses its normal Str modifier but the base damage dice are double its bite damage how about we just have the augmented collision to 4d6+10 to "follow the pattern" so to speak.

Suggested Revision:

Capsizing Collision (Ex): As a full-round action, a submerged Huge young afanc can swim up to double speed (80 feet) and crash into a waterborn target. The afanc must move at least 30 ft. and end in the target's space. This attack deals 2d6+10 points of damage. If the target is a creature it can attempt either an attack of opportunity or a DC 24 Reflex save for half damage. The save DC is Strength-based.

If it crashes into a vessel, the afanc makes a Strength check with a +8 size bonus (total modifier +18 for a typical Huge young afanc) against a DC based on the vessel: rowboat DC 18, launch* DC 26, keelboat DC 30, sailing ship or longship DC 38, warship DC 42, or galley DC 45. If the Strength check succeeds, the collision does an additional 2d6 damage (4d6+10 in total), and the afanc then make another Strength check with a –4 penalty (typical modifier +14, same target DCs). If the second Strength check succeeds, the vessel capsizes.