Creature Catalogue Overhaul Project Revisited

[Cleon]

I guess you're right; I haven't played enough at high levels to get to the point where 1d10 Con/1d10 Con soudns "not lethal."

Actually, 1d10/1d10 Con is pretty not lethal to many non-Epic high level characters. Once you get high enough CL for heroes' feast they get an easy means for immunity to poison.

For Epic Characters, a Fort DC 24 poison is pretty easy to save against, and the Perfect Health epic feat provides immunity to it.

I'd be happy with the fix you propose --- it is a plain dagger of venom for anyone else but a keen, wounding, returning dagger of venom with the Wolf Lord's DC set as above and 1d10 Con/death or maybe 2d10/2d10 Con damage or 1d10/1d10 Con drain. I'm also amenable to 6 "poisons" per day.

So which poison damage do you prefer?

With that fix, do we still want all of keen, wounding, returning?

I'd keep the keen wounding returning bit. I'd also be OK giving some of those qualities to the dagger when wielded by "anyone else".

Keen wounding returning is worth a +4 bonus. The "venom" quality of a normal dagger of venom appears to be worth +1 or +6000 gp (since it's a +1 dagger with the price of a +2 magical weapon), but the extra uses and potency ought to increase that. Hmm, a nine lives stealer sword has a DC 20 save or die effect and is worth +15000 gp more than its base weapon (a +2 longsword), which might give some guidance.

Hmm, we should also decide what magical plus to give the dagger. The other Animal Lords have weapons with total boni of +8 (one weapon) or +7 (two weapons), suggesting it should be a +3 dagger. Or we could make it a +1 weapon like a normal dagger of venom and add another +2 in qualities - I'd fancy ghost touch and seeking, to the wolf's fang can easily bite incorporeal or concealed opponents.

 

[Cleon]

are these gathered into a wiki or index anywhere ?

Most of them are on this forum in various places.

There's a lot of the conversions on Creature Catalog New Convewrsions (Part One) and Creature Catalog new 3.5 conversions (Part Two), and the most recent conversions are on Creatures Awaiting Upload & Current Conversions.

Those threads don't have the conversions arranged in a convenient order, unfortunately.

A Google search with "Enworld.org", "General Monsters" and the monster's name will usually turn up the conversion.

If you can't find a particular CC conversion in this forum by Googling it, you could always start a thread asking for its stats and someone will probably be able to point you to the thread it's in.

However, some of the older CC conversions don't seem to be on the Enworld General Monster Forums any more - mainly the 3.0 ones that haven't been updated to 3.5 yet. If it's no longer on these fora and you badly need the stats I could probably repost it, since I've got a fairly up-to-date archive of the Creature Catalog entries.

 

[freyar]

Maybe the answer to some of your objections (at least immunity to poison) is to make the "poison" a "venom" that isn't covered by immunity to poison. But I'd be happy however you'd like to set the damage out of the options I listed.

 

[Cleon]

Maybe the answer to some of your objections (at least immunity to poison) is to make the "poison" a "venom" that isn't covered by immunity to poison. But I'd be happy however you'd like to set the damage out of the options I listed.

I'm not keen on the immunity to poison immune venom idea. Let's just keep it standard poison.

The original proposals of 1d10/1d10 for the "normal wielder" and 1d10/death for the "wolf lord" is OK by me, so shall we use that?

 

[freyar]

Sure. Did you want to do +3 or +1 ghost touch, seeking?

I may take a short break from posting (other than my usual ones ) to write the undead dragon slayer sample. Hopefully that won't take too many days.

 

[Cleon]

Sure. Did you want to do +3 or +1 ghost touch, seeking?

Well the original had a +1 weapon, so I lean slightly towards the +1 keen woundingseeking returning ghost touch dagger of venom. That's a bit of a mouthful!

How about this for a writeup:

Wolf's Fang: This ivory-white +1 dagger of venom has the keen, wounding, seeking, returning and ghost touch properties.

The dagger of venom poison effect can be invoked six times per day. When wielded by the Wolf Lord, the poison deals 1d10 Con damage immediately and kills the victim one minute later, each instance of damage can be negated by a DC 24 Fort save (the save DC uses the Wolf Lord's caster level and Wisdom modifier). Other wielders use the poison effect of a standard dagger of venom (1d10 Con/1d10 Con, Fort DC 14).

I may take a short break from posting (other than my usual ones ) to write the undead dragon slayer sample. Hopefully that won't take too many days.

Well I guess I can find some way to amuse myself in the meantime...

 

[freyar]

I'll go for that.

So, are we giving him Bite Alacrity as discussed above?

Somehow he seems weak if that's his only SA.

 

[Cleon]

I'll go for that.

Updating the Wolf Lord Working Draft.

So, are we giving him Bite Alacrity as discussed above?

Definitely.

Somehow he seems weak if that's his only SA.

Well, it gets trip with its bite as well!

Still, that seems pretty weak. How about we give it an upgraded version of the Greater Seawolf's "Throat Seizing" special attack? Maybe a "Throat Ripping" bite that does constrict damage, plus Con damage on a critical?

Oh, and I noticed an error in the Lizard Lord Working Draft -
Its hybrid form's iterative attack went 50/45/40/30 instead of 50/45/40/35.

It's been fixed.

 

[freyar]

I'll agree to your Throat Ripping; would you like to put a draft in the working draft?

But I still think the Wolf Lord seems weaker than Lady Hawk and the Lizard Lord. Those both have SLAs and gaze attacks. Is there some way to justify giving the Wolf Lord some?

 

[Cleon]

I'll agree to your Throat Ripping; would you like to put a draft in the working draft?

I think it makes more sense to tinker with a Throat Ripping special attack in this thread and add it to the draft when it's finished.

What sort of effect should we give the Ripping - copious bleeding (ongoing Con damage until staunched by a Fort save, death, or sufficiently advanced healing), maybe?

But I still think the Wolf Lord seems weaker than Lady Hawk and the Lizard Lord. Those both have SLAs and gaze attacks. Is there some way to justify giving the Wolf Lord some?

Eh? aren't we giving all these Animal Lords astral projection, cure serious wounds, detect evil, detect good, dimension door, displacement, ethereal jaunt, greater invisibility, greater teleport and tongues as SLAs, plus one extra minor SLA to add a touch of variety (hypnotic pattern for the Hawk, spider climb for the Lizard).

Wolfie is likely to get something like expeditious retreat that, while useful, ain't going to unbalance things much.

As for a gaze attack, I'm reluctant to do it because there's nothing to suggest such a power in the original monster.

Although, ironically, European folklore about wolves credits them with having a gaze attack - there's stories that if a wolf sees a man before the man sees the wolf, the man will lose his voice (in one version) or is transfixed and unable to move as long as the wolf looks at them (in another).

That sounds like a silence or hold person ability in 3E terms.