Creature Catalogue Overhaul Project Revisited

[freyar]

That'll work for me!

How about making the next feat Power Attack?

CR 5 looks ok. By eyeball, they're probably roughly on par with the Medium Adult Tojanida.

 

[Cleon]

That'll work for me!

How about making the next feat Power Attack?

CR 5 looks ok. By eyeball, they're probably roughly on par with the Medium Adult Tojanida.

Updating the Afanc Working Draft.

Upon reflection, I'm wondering whether the Advanced Young Afanc trigger should be Hit Dice not Huge Size (i.e. "If an afanc advances to 9 Hit Dice" instead of "If an afanc advances to Huge size" since then if you reduce a Huge adolescent afanc or enlarge a Large young adult its Capsizing Collision ability doesn't disappear.

I believe the ability is due to the maturing afanc's head growing increasingly tough, eventually turning into the battering-ram like snout of the adult. Shrinking an adolescent would reduce the size bonus to +4.

Let's see, what would that look like…

Advanced Young Afanc
If an afanc advances to 9 Hit Dice it gains the Capsizing Collision special attack described below.

Capsizing Collision (Ex): As a full-round action, a submerged advanced young afanc can swim up to double speed (80 feet) and crash into a waterborn target. The afanc must move at least 30 ft. and end in the target's space. This attack deals 2d6+10 points of damage (1d8 base damage if Large). If the target is a creature it can attempt either an attack of opportunity or a DC 24 Reflex save for half damage. The save DC is Strength-based.

If it crashes into a vessel, the afanc makes a Strength check (+8 size bonus if Huge, +4 if Large; total modifier +18 for a typical Huge young afanc) against a DC based on the vessel: rowboat DC 18, launch* DC 26, keelboat DC 30, sailing ship or longship DC 38, warship DC 42, or galley DC 45. If the Strength check succeeds, the collision does an additional 2d6 damage (4d6+10 in total; Large young afanc do an additional 1d8 instead), and the afanc then make another Strength check with a –4 penalty (typical modifier +14, same target DCs). If the second Strength check succeeds, the vessel capsizes.

*Launches are described in Stormwrack.​

Ugh, that's messy.

Upon reflection, it's easier retaining the current ability and just adding the line:

Should an advanced young afanc with 9 or more Hit Dice be Large size the collision damage is 1d8 + Strength modifier. It has a +4 size bonus on the Strength check against vessels and does an additional 1d8 damage if it succeeds. Medium size or smaller afanc cannot perform capsizing collisions.​

Updating the Afanc Working Draft.

How about making the next feat Power Attack?

Works for me.

How about Endurance, Improved Multiattack for the adolescent's third and fourth feats?

CR 5 looks ok. By eyeball, they're probably roughly on par with the Medium Adult Tojanida.

I reverse-engineered it two size steps (–2) and 10 Hit Dice (–3) down from the Adult's CR 11 and then knocked off another –1 CR since it's special attacks are less effective.

To me it eyeballs more like a CR 4.

Just compare it to, say, a CR 4 Rhinoceros (which is notably tougher!) or CR 5 Troll (more hp, higher damage, plus regeneration).

The Tojanida has similar hp, but considerably harder Armour Class (AC 23 vs AC 16) and does twice as much damage (2d8+3+2d6+2 vs 1d8+6 or 2d4+6 averages 21 vs 10.5/11).

That suggest the adult might be a CR 10 rather than 11, with the young CR 4 (I'd keep the Huge adolescent at CR 7).

 

[Cleon]

I reverse-engineered it two size steps (–2) and 10 Hit Dice (–3) down from the Adult's CR 11 and then knocked off another –1 CR since it's special attacks are less effective.

To me it eyeballs more like a CR 4.

Just compare it to, say, a CR 4 Rhinoceros (which is notably tougher!) or CR 5 Troll (more hp, higher damage, plus regeneration).

The Tojanida has similar hp, but considerably harder Armour Class (AC 23 vs AC 16) and does twice as much damage (2d8+3+2d6+2 vs 1d8+6 or 2d4+6 averages 21 vs 10.5/11).

That suggest the adult might be a CR 10 rather than 11, with the young CR 4 (I'd keep the Huge adolescent at CR 7).

Hmm, the adult Afanc is certainly in the CR 10 or CR 11 area.

It doesn't feel two entire CRs weaker than the CR 12 Purple Worm, which is rather similar in general stats and Swallow Whole ability but slightly stronger (a couple of points higher numbers and a poison sting). Then again, it's got very similar stats to a Triceratops which is only CR 9 and has the useful Trample special attack.

Dang it, Challenge Ratings are not an exact science!

 

[freyar]

The Advanced Young Afanc looks good.

That feat selection works for me too!

CR 10 and 4 is also fine. As you say, CR is definitely an art, not a science.

Shall we crib from the adult for the young tactics?
Like adults, young afanc often wait for prey to come looking for them and attack smaller ships (up to 40 feet) with the youthful whirlpool attack. They usually avoid larger vessels. Some young afanc develop other tactics, also like adults.

If it can attack opponents in the water, it will in preference to attacking a vessel. An afanc prefers to bite and swallow prey but will use its flippers if hard pressed.


Did we discuss making the "whale disguise" an actual ability?

 

[Cleon]

The Advanced Young Afanc looks good.

That feat selection works for me too!

CR 10 and 4 is also fine. As you say, CR is definitely an art, not a science.

Hmm, while I prefer the neat symmetry of the "typically worth 750-4,500 gp" of a CR 11 adult's eggs over the "[600-3,500 gp? (rounded from 580-3,480)]" of Challenge Rating 10, it's more having the Young Afanc by CR 5 that bothers me.

CR 7 seems about right for a Huge young afanc.

Hold on, how come I've got "Always neutral (often evil)" in the adult and "Always evil (often neutral)" in the young? I know those dang kids are worse than the good old days, but that seems going too far! I'd better change it to match the adult.

Updating the Afanc Working Draft.

Shall we crib from the adult for the young tactics?
Like adults, young afanc often wait for prey to come looking for them and attack smaller ships (up to 40 feet) with the youthful whirlpool attack. They usually avoid larger vessels. Some young afanc develop other tactics, also like adults.

If it can attack opponents in the water, it will in preference to attacking a vessel. An afanc prefers to bite and swallow prey but will use its flippers if hard pressed.

Young afanc don't look as much like whales though, do they? They're more carplike in appearance.

Still, people eat giant carp too…

Tactics wise, I think it's more important to emphasize they hunt in packs.

A huge fish that resembles an enormous carp several times longer than a human is tall, dull gray in color and covered in heavy scales. Its forefins are longer and more flexible than a carp's.

Young afanc live in freshwater, usually major rivers or large lakes. Like adult afanc they can breathe air as well as water, so can survive in waters too foul or unoxygenated for a normal fish to breathe if they can find enough to eat. Afanc are much more social when young and usually swim in the company of other afanc of the same age, usually siblings from the same clutch of eggs. They are reluctant to associate with afancs a lot bigger than themselves, especially unrelated ones, since larger afancs might decide they'd make better meals than hunting companions. Afanc are far more independent than wolves and a group of young afance does not have a "command hierarchy" as such, but still cooperates efficiently to hunt prey and fight off enemies or rivals.

Older afanc start to develop heavy blocky heads that resemble the adult's and their fins grow proportionally larger and more powerful. Their heads eventually become sturdy enough to be used as a weapon, allowing adolescent afancs to ram opponents and capsize boats or even ships. Once fully grown afancs abandon their pack mates and move out to sea, becoming solitary creatures.

A typical young afanc is around 12 to 15 feet long and weighs 800 to 2,000 pounds. Afanc smaller than that don't attack people and are hard to distinguish from dull-coloured carp. A newly hatched afanc would only be about a foot long and a pound in weight.

Combat
Young afanc hunt in packs. They will use organized tactics such as flanking attacks or having one of their number pretend to be an "injured giant carp" to lure fishermen or other predators into an ambush. Young afanc can cooperatively create whirlpools and often use this ability to sink small watercraft in order to attack the occupants. Older adolescent afanc can also ram vessels in a bid to capsize them, they rarely use this attack on anything larger than a keelboat.

Did we discuss making the "whale disguise" an actual ability?

That sounds vaguely familiar but I don't think we actually did anything about it.

I'd be inclined to just give them a racial bonus to Disguise checks when pretending to be a whale (or carp).

Maybe +5? It seems inappropriate to give them +10 like a disguise self spell as they only look kind-of-like a cetacean.

 

[freyar]

CR 7 for the Huge ones seems ok. And I agree with making the alignments match!

Flavor and tactics look great!

A +5 racial bonus to Disguise seems appropriate. Actually, where does it say in the original that the young look like carp? I'm not finding it. Anyway, should the Disguise bonus just apply to the adult? Let's figure that out, then I think these are done.

Oh, also, we should use the name gawwar samakat somewhere!

 

[Cleon]

Young afanc live in freshwater, usually major rivers or large lakes. Like adult afanc they can breathe air as well as water, so can survive in waters too foul or unoxygenated for a normal fish to breathe if they can find enough to eat. Afanc are much more social when young and usually swim in the company of other afanc of the same age, usually siblings from the same clutch of eggs. They are reluctant to associate with afancs a lot bigger than themselves, especially unrelated ones, since larger afancs might decide they'd make better meals than hunting companions. Afanc are far more independent than wolves and a group of young afance does not have a "command hierarchy" as such, but still cooperates efficiently to hunt prey and fight off enemies or rivals.

CR 7 for the Huge ones seems ok. And I agree with making the alignments match!

Flavor and tactics look great!

Updating the Afanc Working Draft.

After re-reading the background info, I decided to cut out the "if they can find enough to eat" after the breathing air bit. It seems extraneous.

I also changed the last sentence's "A newly hatched afanc would only be about a foot long and a pound in weight" to the more succinct "A newly hatched afanc is about a foot long and a pound in weight."

Also forgot to put its defauly alignment of NE at the start of the Afanc Adolescent statblock.

A +5 racial bonus to Disguise seems appropriate. Actually, where does it say in the original that the young look like carp? I'm not finding it. Anyway, should the Disguise bonus just apply to the adult? Let's figure that out, then I think these are done.

That was just something I made up! Young afanc are heavy-bodied fish with large round heads and big scales that live in freshwater, what common freshwater fish does that sound like? A carp!

If you don't care for carps, it's easy to cut it out:

A huge heavy-bodied fish several times longer than a human is tall, dull gray in color and covered in large scales. Its forefins are longer and more flexible than most fishes.

A typical young afanc is around 12 to 15 feet long and weighs 800 to 2,000 pounds. Afanc smaller than that don't attack people. A newly hatched afanc is about a foot long and a pound in weight.

Combat
Young afanc hunt in packs. They will use organized tactics such as flanking attacks or having one of their number pretend to be an "injured giant fish" to lure fishermen or other predators into an ambush.

Oh, also, we should use the name gawwar samakat somewhere!

Methinks that'd best belong in an "In Zakhara" underbar, how about:

In Zakhara
These monster fish are called gawwar samakat in Zakhara's common tongue of Midani. They are a well-known menace to shipping and people who work on the water. Most inhabitants of the Land of Fate do not know they are called afanc in "unenlightened regions" such as Faerûn. Gawwar samakat eggs can sometimes be bought and sold in the luxury shops and markets of Zakhara's many cities.

 

[freyar]

I like your minor edits.

I'm ok with describing the young as looking like carp, but I just think giving them a Disguise bonus as carp as straying a little too far from the original. Besides, they're a bit too large to be carp.

The Zakhara blurb looks good!

 

[Cleon]

I like your minor edits.

I'm ok with describing the young as looking like carp, but I just think giving them a Disguise bonus as carp as straying a little too far from the original. Besides, they're a bit too large to be carp.

Well that why the previous draft said "giant carp" rather than a regular-sized ones!

Anyhow, I'll use the carpless version so no one need carp about it.

Carp!

The Zakhara blurb looks good!

Updating the Afanc Working Draft.

For the sake of posterity, the previous version was as follows (only changed paragraphs are quoted):

Young Afanc Working Draft
A huge fish that resembles an enormous carp several times longer than a human is tall, dull gray in color and covered in heavy scales. Its forefins are longer and more flexible than a carp's.

+SNIP+​

A typical young afanc is around 12 to 15 feet long and weighs 800 to 2,000 pounds. Afanc smaller than that don't attack people and are hard to distinguish from dull-coloured carp. A newly hatched afanc is about a foot long and a pound in weight.

Combat
Young afanc hunt in packs. They will use organized tactics such as flanking attacks or having one of their number pretend to be an "injured giant carp" to lure fishermen or other predators into an ambush. Young afanc can cooperatively create whirlpools and often use this ability to sink small watercraft in order to attack the occupants. Older adolescent afanc can also ram vessels in a bid to capsize them, they rarely use this attack on anything larger than a keelboat.

 

[Cleon]

Updating the Afanc Working Draft.

So is it done now?