Criminal Underclass in the Campaign World

[Col_Pladoh]

Howdy!

There is review of my generic FRPG world building sourcebook, THE CANTING CREW, it having both D20 and LA game system details in its body, online. The review is at:

http://www.mortality.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=78

What I'd really like feedback on is if this interests DMs, and what those who have seen the work think of my treatment of the subject. Rest assured that cons are as meaningful to me as pros in this regard

One thing that puzzles me, and this is related to "The Silly Economics of D&D" thread, is the reviewers stated confusion over the monetary system I set forth in the book. To me it seems easy and simple to employ, viable in virtually any FRPG system. By giving one-ounce coins of copper, silver, and gold values in US dollars, most prices are easily dealt with. Of course special things, and certainly magical ones, will need to have tables for values, but even that seems to be more intuitively established when coming from a known base, the dollar of today. SO where have I gne wrong?

Cheers,
Gary

 

[diaglo]

not having purchased the book, yet. but having read Kithmaker's review. i am interested.

can you elaborate a little on the money system?

i believe pricing in a campaign is always an issue.

is the pricing based on the standard of the day? in which case USD may not be applicable.

how much does a loaf of bread cost? what technologies are required to produce the items? how readily available are the experts? resources?

is this during the gold rush days?

you do know we are off the gold standard.

go reread your copy of the Wizard of Oz. what color were Dorothy's shoes originally?

 

[Vaxalon]

The primary problem with using modern dollars as your monetary rule of thumb is the impact of technology.

In our world, for example, a magnifying glass is no big investment. $20 will get you a dandy glass lens in a nifty handle, big enough to fry the biggest ant.

In a world with a medieval level of technoloy, a glass of that size would be completely beyond the means of anyone of less than upper class status.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

not having purchased the book, yet. but having read Kithmaker's review. i am interested.

can you elaborate a little on the money system?

i believe pricing in a campaign is always an issue.

is the pricing based on the standard of the day? in which case USD may not be applicable.

how much does a loaf of bread cost? what technologies are required to produce the items? how readily available are the experts? resources?

is this during the gold rush days?

you do know we are off the gold standard.

go reread your copy of the Wizard of Oz. what color were Dorothy's shoes originally?

Sure, and fair questions.

First basic assumnption change is that the income for the various classes of society is roughly commensurate with those of today's world, the AAI of a developed state being like that of a developed NA or Eurpoean one today. Of course the GM can have depressed economies, inflated ones, whatever.

Given those assumptions, then many of the common things are easily handled by the GM. All that's needed is a general idea of what like or similar products cost now. Bread? A one-pound load costs about one copper piece ($1).

Of course those things demanding a lot of skill and labor to produce are not going to fit in this system. The GM needs to make exceptions, create some extensive lists of the out of the ordinary items' cost. Nevertheless, once that's set to the satisfaction of the GM, all the numerous other things that PCs generally want, need, and seek to purchase are easy. A good meal? Maybe 1 slver piece ($10) in a common eatiing house, and 1 gold piece ($500) in the finest of places.

In all, the system is flexible and prices are very easily adjusted for depressed/cash poor areas, inflated, whatever.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Col_Pladoh]

The primary problem with using modern dollars as your monetary rule of thumb is the impact of technology.

In our world, for example, a magnifying glass is no big investment. $20 will get you a dandy glass lens in a nifty handle, big enough to fry the biggest ant.

In a world with a medieval level of technoloy, a glass of that size would be completely beyond the means of anyone of less than upper class status.

First, I must say that I use a more advanced technological base than the typical for the world setting. My assumption is that between active deities, their clerics work, and active magic use of even relatively limited sort by secular practitioners, the advanced societies would more closely resemble those of the 15th-16th centuries, later that that in some respects, rather than the 12th.

Goiven that, many of the small things that we get cheaply would be expensive, but not grossly so, in the world setting. As glass was made well before the 15th century, and lenses ground, to make mirrors and magnifting glasses in the milieu would be time cnsuming, but not so much as to cause them to be beyone the reach of the more affluent in society--the middle class. I's say a good "burning glass" would cost perhaps $200, not $2,000. A good full-length mirror, though would be in the latter price range, that with silvering and mounting.

Cheerio,
Gary

 

[Carnifex]

Something you might want to consider as a possible point of confusion is that in fantasy settings, generally the value of, say, a gold piece is fixed; you know what you can get for 1gp and that doesn't change; this is generaly because people can't be bothered to complicate monetary matters too much. Whereas the value of the dollar, and indeed any currency, in the real world constantly changes.

Also, the costs of different things are intensely different between a fantasy setting and the real world, mainly because of technology levels and quantities of products. there's no reason to assume that because product x costs $5 today that it would in a fantasy setting.

 

[Kithmaker]

As the confused reviewer, I suppose I should have explained that statement in the review. But since I did not, here is my explanation: I did not understand the need to equate the fantasy monetary units with a real-world unit. Numbers are numbers, and everyone I've gamed with understands the monetary system in RPGs in general. I just didn't see a need for the comparison.

Kithmaker

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Something you might want to consider as a possible point of confusion is that in fantasy settings, generally the value of, say, a gold piece is fixed; you know what you can get for 1gp and that doesn't change; this is generaly because people can't be bothered to complicate monetary matters too much. Whereas the value of the dollar, and indeed any currency, in the real world constantly changes.

Also, the costs of different things are intensely different between a fantasy setting and the real world, mainly because of technology levels and quantities of products. there's no reason to assume that because product x costs $5 today that it would in a fantasy setting.

None of that applies. As noted, the $ value of each common coin metal is indeed fixed per ounce. cp = $1, sp = $10, gp = $500

Most of the things PCs purchase are not much impacted by technology, so for those the equivalency is not improper. Sure, modern echnology makes mass production possible, but that mainly means more available goods, not drastically lower costs in regards common things such as food and clothing.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Col_Pladoh]

As the confused reviewer, I suppose I should have explained that statement in the review. But since I did not, here is my explanation: I did not understand the need to equate the fantasy monetary units with a real-world unit. Numbers are numbers, and everyone I've gamed with understands the monetary system in RPGs in general. I just didn't see a need for the comparison.

Kithmaker

First, thanks very much for the thorough and excellent review.

Second, as one who has dealt endlessly with questions about monetray systems and item costs, and the real culprit behind the outrage on the thread here about the current D&D game's monetary system being less than useful, I thought perhaps the new system U am using in the LA game might be easily adapted and usefully employed elsewhere.

Understanding an RPG's monetary system does not mean it is easy to use, or actually useful, in building a campaign world

Cheerio,
Gary

 

[Anabstercorian]

But... ARGH!

How can an SP be worth 10$ and a GP worth 500$ when 10 SP = 1 GP?

Should we make 1 SP equal to .02 GP and a CP equal to .002 GP?