criteria for new races to be added to the PHB

Tallifer

Adventurer
If they cut down the paragraphs by writing less wordy and fluffy prose, you could easily fit each race on one page including a nice picture. That would triple the number of potential races as far as page count. WotC has enough useful material for play to obviate any need for padding.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
To make it work for me I just told my players Goliath is another name for ogre and you are playing an ogre. That worked for them. They kept their cool abilities and race features and that worked for everyone.
I’m so confused, though. What is wrong with the Goliath, as is?

Edit: also, do ogres fill the role of “really big people, not especially evil or despised, just rarely seen and usually reclusive”?
 

Arnwolf666

Adventurer
I’m so confused, though. What is wrong with the Goliath, as is?
I like races to fit in mythological paradigms. I want them to pull from the mythologies that already exist for the game I run. If I’m playing in someone else’s game that’s fine. They just don’t work in the setting i play. If I’m running a published setting and adventure it’s okay. I hope they play and have fun.


but I think they killed the perfect opportunity to introduce ogres or firbolg’s as a playable race in the PHB. I don’t persecute players for playing them. Put it that way.
 

GreyLord

Adventurer
The basic question that should be answered is if the race is a fantasy trope.

Second, is it a fantasy trope where players normally can play it as a good character or at least a main character of a story?

If the answer is no move on to the next basis...

Is it found traditionally in the core books of older D&D books and was it ever the basis of a very popular main character of D&D fiction?

If it does not fall into one of those two, I do not feel it belongs in the PHB.

The reason is that if you include non-heroic races or races that players see more as enemies and foes rather than things the Players see as heroes...it is a turn off.

Turn your players off and you end up with Pathfinder 2e where you can play goblins. Sure, some will say it's awesome...but PF2e is distinctly NOT overcoming D&D in my opinion in sales...and possibly is doing worse than it 1e was overall. Great for Paizo players...not good for D&D where the intent is to appeal to as great a market as possible.
 

the Jester

Legend
If you keep reprinting a playing race or subrace or they keep popping up in multiple settings in a playable context, it's a sign that they should have been put into the PHB in the first place. I mean why are their races like humans, Dwarves, ect..., in the PHB? because its more effient to put them in the core player book instead of reprinting the core races and core subraces endlessly.
Nah. If you keep reprinting a race in multiple settings or what not, it's because they fit those settings. That doesn't mean that they fit all, or even most, settings. Nor is it a sign that they should be in the PH. Goblins, to choose one example you point at, are traditionally monsters, not pcs. Using them as pcs is a niche thing. Putting them into the PH essentially pressures a bunch of DMs into allowing them, when they might not be suitable for those campaigns.

Also, the iconic status of the races in the PH is pretty well established, with each of them going back to at least one edition's previous PH (if not most or all editions' PH). Tradition and precedent really matter in D&D.
 

the Jester

Legend
Your confusing the purpose of a Beginner Box with the PHB, a core book whose function at least in part is containing elements that are common to many settings, to reduce the need for duplication, as well as acting as a starting point.

So far it's only Aasimar, Shifters, Genasai, Goblins, and Gith, and isn't a huge increase, it's what 10 pages maybe, 12 at most. Peanuts.
I don't want any of those except aasimar as an option. Put them in a PH and that's a bunch of wasted space that could be better spent on other material. Remember, every page spent on stuff a given group isn't going to use also costs a page of stuff they will.
 

the Jester

Legend
The logical thing from that standpoint is to put all races in a 4th core book. PHB, MM, DMG, & PRG (Player Race Guide). Otherwise someone is always being left out or a 2nd class citizen.
Oh Jesus no. A full book of races would be 90% wasted space for most campaigns that don't want an anything goes style. And it would be a required buy to play the game- you can't play a raceless character, after all.
 

dave2008

Legend
Oh Jesus no. A full book of races would be 90% wasted space for most campaigns that don't want an anything goes style. And it would be a required buy to play the game- you can't play a raceless character, after all.
Oh yes I realize it is a horrible idea - that is what makes it so great!

Funny story, in my last 4e campaign I gave the players the Monster Manual and said pic your player race from that and I can make it work. We ended up with a a Lizardfolk, a dragon, a yaun-ti, two elves, and a halfling. I was really hoping someone was going to pick a beholder. ;)
 

Coroc

Adventurer
I’m so confused, though. What is wrong with the Goliath, as is?

Edit: also, do ogres fill the role of “really big people, not especially evil or despised, just rarely seen and usually reclusive”?
I do not know for sure, but it might have to do something with "Large" or "Medium" creature, especially on battlemat (Taking 4 squares or 1) , or in narrow dungeons. It came up with 3e i think or 4e to e.g. replace halfgiants of 2e to a more manageable size. some people who liked large PCs with all advantages and drawbacks probably were disappointed with it.
Tbh i do not like it either, because it is some compromise with a biblical name but without any sound lore.
Halfgiants in DS got lore. Ogres got lore. Halfogres are explainable somehow as are Orogs. But Goliaths came out of the blue just to satisfy soem game mechanic.
 

gyor

Hero
I don't want any of those except aasimar as an option. Put them in a PH and that's a bunch of wasted space that could be better spent on other material. Remember, every page spent on stuff a given group isn't going to use also costs a page of stuff they will.
It's used enough that they keep reprinting Goblins, they are more popular then you think. Pathfinder 2e even has them in the core.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I’m so confused, though. What is wrong with the Goliath, as is?
A
I do not know for sure, but it might have to do something with "Large" or "Medium" creature, especially on battlemat (Taking 4 squares or 1) , or in narrow dungeons. It came up with 3e i think or 4e to e.g. replace halfgiants of 2e to a more manageable size. some people who liked large PCs with all advantages and drawbacks probably were disappointed with it.
Tbh i do not like it either, because it is some compromise with a biblical name but without any sound lore.
Halfgiants in DS got lore. Ogres got lore. Halfogres are explainable somehow as are Orogs. But Goliaths came out of the blue just to satisfy soem game mechanic.
now we are deeper into the stuff that confuses me.

How on earth could it ever matter why Goliath entered the game?

They have 3 editions of solid lore, which is very much their own. The 5e Goliath has nothing to do with satisfying a mechanical issue. It is in the game because enough people like them for it to be worth including them in Volos.
 

Eltab

Explorer
Bring in a race when it adds something to the setting or the party that they will not have without it. This "something" might be fluff or might be a mechanical benefit.

Sometimes it's easy to push A-lot-of-choices right over into Too-many-choices Land.
In grocery stores, 12 similar items (like brands of mac&cheese) is the most you can stock before sales drop because "I can't decide".
On the other end of the spectrum, less than 4 items brings complaints of "I can't find what I want".
So the 6+6 races in PHB is about as many as they could put in while optimizing for both happiness and variety.
 

Arnwolf666

Adventurer
A

now we are deeper into the stuff that confuses me.

How on earth could it ever matter why Goliath entered the game?

They have 3 editions of solid lore, which is very much their own. The 5e Goliath has nothing to do with satisfying a mechanical issue. It is in the game because enough people like them for it to be worth including them in Volos.
they are not in my 3.0 or 3.5 PHB. I really wouldn’t count a supplement. There are literally 100s of races as optiona in the various editions if you count every optional splatbook. Many race more common than the Goliath if you count that way.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
they are not in my 3.0 or 3.5 PHB. I really wouldn’t count a supplement. There are literally 100s of races as optiona in the various editions if you count every optional splatbook. Many race more common than the Goliath if you count that way.
Lol what the hell!?

The Goliath has lore from 3 editions. That isn’t a statement that has literally anything to do with PHB vs supplement.
 

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