criteria for new races to be added to the PHB

Coroc

Adventurer
they are not in my 3.0 or 3.5 PHB. I really wouldn’t count a supplement. There are literally 100s of races as optiona in the various editions if you count every optional splatbook. Many race more common than the Goliath if you count that way.
Also @doctorbadwolf and @dave2008

So there we go then now we only need some confirmation from a 4e guy if it was in 4e basic or expanded PHB, I really think now it was the 4e battle mat issue which generated them.

See, if you were to play a large mob it would take up 4 squares on the battlefield. For all the classes based on flanking roles this could lead to unwanted situations back then, and if there were 1 square spaces I cannot tell you if there was some way for a 4 square creature to squeeze in.

But people still wanted to play their darksun halfgiant (4e had some official Darksun material) so maybe they came up by replacing it with the goliath? 4e is the edition I am at least aware of, so maybe someone who knows 4e well can clear this up? @dnd4vr eventually?
 

Mecheon

Explorer
So there we go then now we only need some confirmation from a 4e guy if it was in 4e basic or expanded PHB, I really think now it was the 4e battle mat issue which generated them.
They came in PHB 2, so alongside gnomes, half-orcs, shifters and deva

But people still wanted to play their darksun halfgiant (4e had some official Darksun material) so maybe they came up by replacing it with the goliath? 4e is the edition I am at least aware of, so maybe someone who knows 4e well can clear this up?
Funny thing about this? Legacy from 3E. Apparently 3E half giants were the first to shrink them to medium which is kind of funny when you think of, well, half-ogres being Large in that edition. And just checking the stats, 3.5e goliaths are stronger than half giants which is, a thing.
 

Coroc

Adventurer
They came in PHB 2, so alongside gnomes, half-orcs, shifters and deva


Funny thing about this? Legacy from 3E. Apparently 3E half giants were the first to shrink them to medium which is kind of funny when you think of, well, half-ogres being Large in that edition. And just checking the stats, 3.5e goliaths are stronger than half giants which is, a thing.
Thank you, that clears things up.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Appearing in 4e should not count...that was the time of darkness.
Mod Note:

No, the time of darkness is the time when folks cannot put aside decade-old issues with luxury entertainment pursuits.

Please, leave the hyperbole at home next time. We don't need to perpetuate that nonsense.
 

Mecheon

Explorer
I would rather see orog or firbolg before any more shy poor mans half giants.
4E was just following 3.5E's steps on that one

3.5E made half giants medium and only 8 ft at most. Of course, I don't think anyone actually remembers Half Giants being in 3.5E, but they were there. Hell, making them Goliaths was a buff, that is how bad they were stat-wise in 3.5. They're one of the weaker LA+1s

2 editions so far made 'em medium. 2E's the outlier on this one. If we get half-giants, its far more likely chance they'll be using Goliath stats or something close to it.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
Nitpick - Dragonborn are canon in Greyhawk according to Ghosts of Saltmarsh. As are Tieflings.

The idea that FR couldn't accommodate goblin PC's is, AFAIC, laughable. FR can accommodate pretty much anything, up to and including two trunked intelligent elephants. Goblins? Easy peasy.
Nitpicking Your Nitpick. That is a book published in 2018 way after Greyhawk was not supported. DEATH TO GOBLINS! DEATH TO TIEFLINS. DEATH TO JASPER. DEATH TO DRAGONBORN. DEATH TO DROW!.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
…If a playable race keeps being reprinted, it's a sign it's essential……….haaaa Um No. It can be fan service. Padding the page count. EVILLLY Marketing deal. (Pss gyro and others will buy the new splat book if Goblins are in it.) It is an author or company favorite. (Shoot if we drop Goliaths Mike said he would quit and take a third of the creative staff.

I skipped 4E and only played 3.5E to about 2004. So any race not in the AD&D (1E) PHB are new to me. And are not really needed. I did not read or retained what I read of the TRS novels set in the various novels so again some of the races are just fan service.

@gyor thanks for the various lore posts. But some of us thing lore is a bore.

Greyhawk in 1E seem to get a lot of the Kitchen sink stuff (Wild west, Space craft, write ups of fiction characters as npcs.) But the realms seem to said “Here hold my beer” And went out and bought the industrial kitchen sink, the Hobart, and granny’s washtub so it could contain anything from Anime, Space Fiction, Mad max, and Heavy Metal.
 

gyor

Hero
…If a playable race keeps being reprinted, it's a sign it's essential……….haaaa Um No. It can be fan service. Padding the page count. EVILLLY Marketing deal. (Pss gyro and others will buy the new splat book if Goblins are in it.) It is an author or company favorite. (Shoot if we drop Goliaths Mike said he would quit and take a third of the creative staff.

I skipped 4E and only played 3.5E to about 2004. So any race not in the AD&D (1E) PHB are new to me. And are not really needed. I did not read or retained what I read of the TRS novels set in the various novels so again some of the races are just fan service.

@gyor thanks for the various lore posts. But some of us thing lore is a bore.

Greyhawk in 1E seem to get a lot of the Kitchen sink stuff (Wild west, Space craft, write ups of fiction characters as npcs.) But the realms seem to said “Here hold my beer” And went out and bought the industrial kitchen sink, the Hobart, and granny’s washtub so it could contain anything from Anime, Space Fiction, Mad max, and Heavy Metal.
Anime? What anime is on the FR? Or heavy metal. And "Space" exists for every setting thanks to Spelljammers. Mad Max was actually in Hell, not Realmspace or its echoplanes.

And I'm not that into Goblins, it was a logic based example, not a preference based example. If I went with preferences Tritons, Vryloka, and Maenads would be in the PHB, but those don't fit my critera, so I am not advocating for their inclusion in the PHB.

Can't any see the logic of what I am preposing? Because I seem to be getting alot of "Yuck, change is gross!" style arguements.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Once people can roleplay humans well, we can talk about expanding the races.

I won't hold my breath.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
That made no sense at all.
1. We (humans) are the only intelligent lifeform that we know of.

2. Roleplaying (acting) is difficult enough to do when you are simply RPing a complicated person that is not yourself.

3. Other races in D&D (and other games) tend to consist of two things:
a. A collection of mechanical bonuses/abilities; and
b. A bunch of stereotypes, either written as lore or generally known, that you play into.

4. As such, people generally choose races for their mechanical benefits, and then roleplay those races horribly as some sort of exaggerated human. "Oh look. It's a dwarf. Guess we'll see a pseudo-Scottish accent, and love of beer and/or rocks."

5. Given that people have difficulty RPing humans (which at least they have a wealth of models for), I would suggest that most people try to RP a human well before they branch out into terrible caricatures.


....better? ;)
 

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