Critical on "Splash" Damage

[Gothire]

Situation that came up in my game this weekend:

Warlock rolls a critical hit on "Fiery Bolt" power. This power does big fire damage (3d6+Con) to the main target, then does what we call "splash damage" (a smaller amount, 1d6+Con) to all adjacent creatures without an attack roll. Questions that came up:

1.) Does the Warlock's Curse damage get maximized from the hit?
2.) Can the Warlock apply his curse damage to the main target and to any creatures hit by the splash damage, or does he have to choose only one?
3.) Does the crit maximize the "splash" damage as well, or just the min hit?
4.) Do you roll the extra damage dice from a magical implement once and apply that extra damage to everyone, or re-roll it for each affected creature?

 

[ValhallaGH]

1) Yes.
2) Curse damage only applies to creatures that were already cursed. So, maybe.
3) Yes. Crits only affect things that require attack rolls. If no attack roll is required, it can't crit (unless your DM declares otherwise). Since this is part of the "Hit" line, it required an attack roll. It just sucks for the adjacent guys that the attack was against Slowpoke McGee.
4) Once.

 

[abyssaldeath]

1 and 3)Yes and Yes The 1d6+con is part of the hit line so it would be maximized. If it was part of an effect line then it would be no.
2)The curse damage can only be applied to a cursed creature and only once per round.
4)Once

 

[FireLance]

1) Yes, if you choose to apply it to a creature you scored a critical hit against.

2) The warlock does not need to apply it to the creature he hit (for example, if he thinks the critical hit will kill the main target and the extra curse damage will be wasted) but he can only apply it to one target.

3) I'm inclined to go with the "no attack roll against the target, no critical" approach myself. Maximizing the base 1d6 damage is not a big deal, but the additional critical damage from a magic implement that gets added on top of that could be quite significant.

Whatever the DM decides, he should apply the same principle consistently to other powers that deal damage to one or more additional enemies without the need for an attack roll, such as the fighter at-will attack cleave and the swordmage at-will attack greenflame blade. Although these powers deal static damage to the other enemies, extra damage from a magic weapon or a high crit weapon property should still apply if they are also considered critical hits.

4) As mentioned, roll the extra damage once and apply it to all creatures that were critically hit by the same attack power.

 

[the-golem]

While the "no attack role, no critical" argument makes sense, I would personally rule the other way. If the main attack hits extra hard, the "splash" would be from that extra hard attack, not a normal attack. Therefore, the splash damage would be maxed also.

Think of it like a rock hitting a windshield. At a low velocity, it might crack the windshield and have a small spidering effect. At a much higher velocity, it creates a large dent, and half the windshield spiders. There isn't "normal" spidering from a harder impact.

Three cheers for half-baked analogies.

 

[FireLance]

Mind you, if splash damage is considered a critical hit if the attack against the primary target is a critical hit, there could be some interesting interactions with the coup de grace rules. At the most extreme, a 21+ level swordmage with greenflame blade and a +6 vicious or vorpal fullblade could inflict Strength modifier + 9d12 damage to all enemies adjacent to a helpless opponent that he hits with a coup de grace.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Mind you, if splash damage is considered a critical hit if the attack against the primary target is a critical hit, there could be some interesting interactions with the coup de grace rules. At the most extreme, a 21+ level swordmage with greenflame blade and a +6 vicious or vorpal fullblade could inflict Strength modifier + 9d12 damage to all enemies adjacent to a helpless opponent that he hits with a coup de grace.

Well, I think the splash damage would be maximized because it is a damage roll on a hit that you would normally roll if it wasn't a crit, but the attack roll was still only on a single target so only the target the roll was made against would get the extra damage IMHO.

 

[the-golem]

Right, just the words I wanted to say. Full splash damage, but not extra.

Incidentally, the secondary damage done by a fighters cleave is static. There is no dice role ->

"Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and an enemy adjacent
to you takes damage equal to your Strength modifier."

That said, If the fighter cleaved with a crity, I would probably allow double the modifier. Maybe 1.5*Mod.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Three cheers for half-baked analogies.

What do you think this is, /.?

 

[Kishin]

Just chiming in: I play (played) the Paladin who died from the splash damage being discussed in this thread.

Ironically, it was my first character death in my 15+ year history of gaming, and I wasn't even there for it. I was exhausted, left home early, and our Warlock's player called me to ask me to make a decision that eventually put my character in the position to be hit and killed by the selfsame Warlock's Fiery Bolt.

Moral of the Story: Never leave early. You miss the good stuff. Like character death.