Critical Role Critical Role Episode #26 - spoilers!

[iserith]

Thing #1 is not really a DM thing, more a role-play and intra-party dynamic. The player decided her character was frightened when the fight started and chose to roll all attacks etc at disadvantage. The rest of the group was understandably a bit shocked as I think this development was not sufficiently telegraphed. The character had seemed quite tough until that point.

That's weird. You can be frightened without being Frightened and I don't see how that's a player's role to decide. I could see the DM mandating it for reasons or offering it as an option to the player in exchange for Inspiration (not a great trade, but better than nothing). But the player deciding? Nah.

 

[robus]

That's weird. You can be frightened without being Frightened and I don't see how that's a player's role to decide. I could see the DM mandating it for reasons or offering it as an option to the player in exchange for Inspiration (not a great trade, but better than nothing). But the player deciding? Nah.

Yeah, I think that’s what made it seem a bit odd.

 

[robus]

Molly has “died” before in their backstory. So this could be the culmination of some DM and player scheming. (Taliesin is a schemer.)

Or this could just be Mercer showing that just because the characters have merch, fan art, and minis they’re not invulnerable. With no permanent deaths in the last campaign and the show being so big, I bet people had wondered if he would hold back.
Guess we’ll find out this coming session...

It certainly made for a very gripping last half hour!

 

[Jester David]

What i saw was a strange case of players and characters acting very odd and disjpinted, coming up with a plan that was bad on many organic levels, convincing themselves it was good, then sticking to it way way way long after seeing its not what we expect.

I have seen this far more times than I can count.
It's amazing how the sunk-cost fallacy kicks in with players and plans. "We've done it this long. Let's keep going or we'll have wasted the last first of the encounter!"

That's weird. You can be frightened without being Frightened and I don't see how that's a player's role to decide. I could see the DM mandating it for reasons or offering it as an option to the player in exchange for Inspiration (not a great trade, but better than nothing). But the player deciding? Nah.

Why not?
Why can't a player decide they're non-magically afraid? Or non-magically charmed (aka love at first sight)?
Why is it not the player's roll to decide that? Isn't it worse for the DM to tell the player how their character is feeling?

 

[5ekyu]

Yeah, I think that’s what made it seem a bit odd.

"...Fear or weakness"
""What's the one person... you are tertified of?"

Lifted directly from the like one paragraph, six sentences of Flaw in the PHB.

As i recall, in session, the player asked could she take disadvantage on herself in that case and the answer was yes.

"Give in to the drawbacks presented by a flaw or bond"

Listed a little further down under what the GM might reqard inspiration for.

Finally, when disadvantage follows directly from the caps F frightened, a player asking for that as her flaw manifest (if not the whole closer bit) does not seem odd or at least "at odds with RAW at all,

If CR used inspiration, my bet is Keg got some...

 

[iserith]

Why not?
Why can't a player decide they're non-magically afraid? Or non-magically charmed (aka love at first sight)?
Why is it not the player's roll to decide that? Isn't it worse for the DM to tell the player how their character is feeling?

As I stated, a player can definitely decide if the character is frightened or in love. He or she can't decide if the character is (mechanically) Frightened or Charmed. That is the DM's role.

 

[Jester David]

As I stated, a player can definitely decide if the character is frightened or in love. He or she can't decide if the character is (mechanically) Frightened or Charmed. That is the DM's role.

Why not?

 

[5ekyu]

I have seen this far more times than I can count.
It's amazing how the sunk-cost fallacy kicks in with players and plans. "We've done it this long. Let's keep going or we'll have wasted the last first of the encounter!"


Why not?
Why can't a player decide they're non-magically afraid? Or non-magically charmed (aka love at first sight)?
Why is it not the player's roll to decide that? Isn't it worse for the DM to tell the player how their character is feeling?

I have seen it as well. One of my longest running players, great role player, good friend is known for his stick to plan way to long blindspot.

Been seen in boards games and in rpgs tho in rpgs he does manage to mitigate it with some character traits due to roleplaying.

I once suggested he "roleplay" the ship's captain when he played SFB to help him get out of his own bad habits.

 

[iserith]

Why not?

I'm scratching my head over your question. Per the rules, the player can only describe what he or she wants to do. He or she can't decide which rules apply and when. That's for the DM to decide as Master of Rules and as part of determining what to narrate as the result of the adventurers' actions.

 

[Jester David]

I'm scratching my head over your question. Per the rules, the player can only describe what he or she wants to do. He or she can't decide which rules apply and when. That's for the DM to decide as Master of Rules and as part of determining what to narrate as the result of the adventurers' actions.

Sure they can.
The player can close their eyes and gain the Blinded condition. At any time they can impose a negative effect on themselves.

So why can't a player declare "I'm terrified of spiders and suffers from acute arachnophobia. I'm making myself frightened of the drider."? Why do they need to ask "DM may I?" to hinder themselves. Is any DM really going to argue? The DM saying "No, you are NOT frightened" is so much worse...