Critique this Pr Class please

[kobold]

A player presented this class to me, being a poor judge of these things I'd like someone else to tell me if this is a balanced class. It is appropriate to the campaign world, so I suppose it would make a nice addition if it's balanced.
Thanks for the help

Hoplite: Prestige Class

ClassLevel BaseAttack Bonus FortSave RefSave WillSave Special Abilities

1st +1 +2 +1 +0 Charge 1/day, Coup
2nd +2 +3 +1 +0 Phalanx +1 AC
3rd +3 +3 +2 +0 Butt-Strike
4th +4 +4 +2 +1 Charge 2/day
5th +5 +4 +3 +1 One-Handed Spear, Piercing Charge
6th +6 +5 +3 +1 Phalanx +2 AC
7th +7 +5 +4 +2 Charge 3/day
8th +8 +6 +4 +2 Phalanx Charge
9th +9 +6 +5 +2 Phalanx +3 AC
10th +10 +7 +5 +3 Charge 4/day

Requirements:

Alignment: Any Lawful

Race: Any

Craft (any): Two Ranks

Feats: Weapon Focus: Any Spear; Weapon Specialization: Any Spear.

Class Skills: As Basic Fighter

Skill Points at each level: 2 + Int Modifier

Class Features:

Butt-Strike: This special ability gives the Hoplite an extra attack with the butt of his spear. It requires a full attack, and the butt-strike is made at the lowest attack value, or at –5 to hit if the character only has one normal attack. It is made on top of any other attacks possible for the Hoplite.

The Butt-strike requires that the Hoplite have a spear outfitted with a spike on what is normally the “down-end” of the spear. Damage for the spike is as follows:

Half-Spear: 1d3
Short-Spear: 1d4
Long Spear: 1d6

Critical damage for a Butt-strike is at X2, not X3.

Charge: A given number of times a day, the Hoplite can charge an opponent without the –2 AC penalty normally associated with the maneuver. The Hoplite must be using a spear in one hand and a large or tower shield in the other; this maneuver will not be possible with any other form of weaponry. The attack, of course, maintains the +2 attack bonus.

Coup: If the Hoplite has a spear outfitted with a spike on the down end, he may attempt to deliver a coup de gras upon a helpless or dying opponent whose square the Hoplite moves through. The Hoplite can move no faster than a normal move, and cannot engage in other combat that round, except for attacks of opportunity.

One-Handed Spear: The Hoplite gains the ability to use any size spear (half, short or long) as a one-handed weapon. This means he can use any sized spear with a shield, thus maintaining all other Hoplite abilities.

Phalanx: The heart of the Hoplite’s abilities, the Phalanx grants an AC bonus to both the Hoplite and any allies fighting along with him. For the Hoplite and others to gain this bonus, the allies must be in squares adjacent to the Hoplite (and each other if more than two), must be engaged in melee combat, and must all be facing in the same direction. They need not be armed in the same manner as the Hoplite.

The Phalanx bonus will travel along a line of allies, and does not just translate to the two allies to either side of the Hoplite. Thus, the Hoplite can be at one end of a line of five allies, and all will get the bonus. However, the Hoplite cannot receive this bonus when standing alone; he must have at least one ally standing adjacent to him. The moment the Hoplite no longer has allies adjacent to him engaged in melee combat, the Phalanx no longer applies. If more than one Hoplite is in the line, the highest bonus is used.

Phalanx Charge: This ability allows the Hoplite to translate both his Phalanx bonus and Charge ability to a line of allies charging along with him. The same rules apply here as they do in the regular Phalanx; thus, if allies move ahead or behind the Hoplite before meeting the opponents, then they will lose both bonuses. Using this ability counts against the Hoplite’s number of daily charges.

Piercing Charge: Starting at 5th level, when the Hoplite uses the Charge ability, he will receive a +2 to damage inflicted, on top of the +2 to hit and no AC penalty.

 

[Crothian]

Are you aware he gains no HPs?

 

[kobold]

I imagine they plan on D10 for HP's

 

[Furn_Darkside]

There is no BAB requirement- and with the requirements involved, they can take the PrC at 2nd level. That is a lot of powers to be gained so low.

Besides- the requirements are so light, any spear fighter would be nuts not to take it.

Phalanx ability- there is no faving in 3rd edition d&d.

Otherwise, it looks ok.

FD

 

[Crothian]

There is no BAB requirement- and with the requirements involved, they can take the PrC at 2nd level. That is a lot of powers to be gained so low.

Actually, you have to be 4th level to take weapon specialization.

Burt I do agree, I'd require BAB 6+

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Actually, you have to be 4th level to take weapon specialization.

Burt I do agree, I'd require BAB 6+

Oops, yeah, *blush*

FD

 

[Spatzimaus]

Let's see...

> Requirements: it's too easy to get into for Fighters, and completely impossible for anyone else. Fighter 4 and you're there. Craft (Any, 2 ranks) makes no sense since none of his abilities have anything to do with Craft skills, and 2 ranks is just WAY too small for any sort of requirement.
Prestige Classes should be achievable for multiple classes, though.

> Saves: Saves are either good (2+(level/2)) or bad (level/3). This Reflex save is in between, bump it down to bad, especially since no reason is given why it'd be better than the base class.

> Abilities:
Butt-strike: besides the unfortunate name, it's just really weak. When you're making a Full Attack action, let's say you're level 16 and get 4 attacks. Your last attack is at -15 to hit compared to your first; it's not going to happen. Adding one more attack at that last step isn't going to help, so the ability actually gets worse as you level up. (It also begs the question, shouldn't an attack with a spike be treated as a double weapon, with all the offhand penalties?)
Phalanx: there's no facing in 3E. You need to specify a type for the AC bonus; I'd suggest "competence" or "morale" (the type explains why it doesn't stack). It also makes little sense; why would your allies benefit if they're not using the same spear/shield combo?
Charge: too specific, requiring both a spear AND a tower shield. Good ability otherwise.
Coup: what's the point of this ability? Everyone can do this anyway. Also, under the existing rules I don't think you couldn't move into an occupied square.

The biggest problem is that you seem to have contradictory abilities. For Phalanx and Charge you need a shield, but until 5th level you need both hands for a big spear (and if you use a smaller spear, one that was 1H already, it's a wasted ability).

Overall, I'd say the power is okay, maybe even a bit underpowered. But, the requirements are too easy for a Prestige Class, and the abilities are way too specialized; once you take the class, you NEED to use a spear with a specially-fitted spike and a Tower Shield. The problem, IMHO, with such specialized classes (especially player-suggested ones) is that it's an increase in power for someone who intended to follow that path and useless for anyone else.

I'd suggest making it more general. If you want to have a spearfighting class, do that instead. You could keep the Charge abilities, give the Feat "Stand Still" (PsiHB, GREAT for reach weapons if you can find a way to threaten adjacent squares too), and an ability that lets them use their weapon against adjacent squares too (see above), and/or the ability to bash with a shield (which would let them threaten adjacent squares). Increase the bonus for setting against a charge, and so on.

But give a downside. Remember, a Fighter is trading 5 combat Feats for 10 levels of this, but that's all; if you're giving him 5 useful abilities that he can't get any other way, that's worth more.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Prestige Classes should be achievable for multiple classes, though.

That is not true- it depends on the PrC.

FD

 

[kobold]

Thanks for the help, other than the fact that no Hit Die are listed I likely would never have noticed any of this. As it is (witht he critque so far) I'd deny the player this class, but I feel I should offer a replacement of some type. So, heres the new question-
What would you do to create a specialized Romanesque soldier?
Trying to stick with the basic idea presented.
Also in referance to the BAB requirement, not using this Prc as an example since this IS a fighter type Prc, I don't beleive any Prc requires a minimum BAB. Using BAB is just a way of controling entry level, just as easily controled with minimum skill ranks or required feats. BAB is perhaps even over used as an entry requirement. Now I do agree that in the cass of this class its probably a good use.

 

[Sidran]

Well I would like to say that with a little bit of work what the player suggested could be used...here goes




Crothian said BAB 6+ ( I am inclined to say yes to that) as a requirement. You already have the Weapon specialization...
So I would put in Knowledge ( Phalanx Tactics) +7 ranks

I would make the HD D8

Give it the Rogues BAB, Fighters Saves

Clarify some of the Abilities and call it a day...