Cruel Reaper (fighter) vs. Wandering Tornado (ranger)

[keterys]

Sure. Now compare these two powers:
B: Close burst 1 - 1d10 + 17, shift 1, close burst 1 - 1d10 + 17

No, because you shouldn't take that power. Wisdom is a primary stat for a Ranger - changing it in that way is the same as showing a power that slides Wis squares as sliding 0. Nonsensical.

The powers have clear and slightly different uses. If you don't like that use, don't take it.

Of course, the ranger one is clearly designed for clerics to take multiclass

 

[Zurai]

No, because you shouldn't take that power. Wisdom is a primary stat for a Ranger - changing it in that way is the same as showing a power that slides Wis squares as sliding 0. Nonsensical.

Incorrect. Wis is a secondary stat for Rangers. There are zero Ranger powers that use Wis to determine attack bonus; thus, it cannot be a primary stat. And, in point of fact, both builds under "Creating a Ranger" recommend slotting Wisdom as the 3rd stat, which means it will get few if any stat bumps from levels.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Incorrect. Wis is a secondary stat for Rangers. There are zero Ranger powers that use Wis to determine attack bonus; thus, it cannot be a primary stat. And, in point of fact, both builds under "Creating a Ranger" recommend slotting Wisdom as the 3rd stat, which means it will get few if any stat bumps from levels.

If it's the 3rd recommended stat and you use the standard array, you'll have the 13 in it. Even if you never put something in, you'll have a 15 there by 27th level, hence you're bound to be better than the fighter (shift-wise) by at least one square.

Plus you can choose another attack on 27th, no? Even if you just follow the basic build, you get a solid power. If you start thinking beyond the basic build it keeps getting better.

If you, of course put something else than 13 into your Wisdom, you already start thinking beyond the basic advice, in which case you know whether to get this power or not.

Cheers, LT.

 

[keterys]

Every ranger I've seen has picked either Str or Dex and used that, making Wis the second stat (putting it in the 22 to 28 range by 28th), take that as you will.

Oh, and if you object to the term 'Primary Ability' I suppose 'Key Ability' would be the one used in the book. My bad.

 

[Saeviomagy]

My point would be that it's a controller-style power, so it doesn't fit the primary niche of EITHER character.

Saying that the striker should do more damage with it isn't necessarily a valid argument.

Also there's where each power is likely to be used - the ranger will most likely use it to clear out minions so the battlefield is more free, and he has better closest targets for hunter's mark. On single solid targets, hunters mark and focussed attacks are much more effective. The real attraction of the power to a fighter is the AoE marking.

 

[Zurai]

My point would be that it's a controller-style power, so it doesn't fit the primary niche of EITHER character.

Saying that the striker should do more damage with it isn't necessarily a valid argument.

Considering that the fighter is going to do more damage with it on a single opponent, I think it's still a plenty valid argument. 4W + 2 Str + 2 (from fighter bonus damage) is almost always going to be better than 2W + 2 Str + 3d6. The fighter (if damage-focused) is going to be using a 2d6 weapon; that means he's going to be doing 8d6 + 36 (avg 64), vs the Ranger's probable 2d10 + 3d6 + 34 (avg 55.5); that means the fighter is doing 15% more damage to a single target than the single target-focused character. It just gets worse when you add in additional targets.

Also there's where each power is likely to be used - the ranger will most likely use it to clear out minions so the battlefield is more free, and he has better closest targets for hunter's mark. On single solid targets, hunters mark and focussed attacks are much more effective. The real attraction of the power to a fighter is the AoE marking.

If the real attraction is AoE marking, why does it do so much more damage?

 

[Tony Vargas]

If all the ranger wanted to do was hit one target twice, he's got better ways to do it.

 

[Zurai]

Your point being? According to half the people on this thread, the power would be exactly as useful as it currently is if it did 1 damage, flat, no bonuses.

My point is that the power is not balanced. The ranger gets a slight movement advantage (which really isn't all that, much less all that and a bag of chips) for a major damage disadvantage. A Ranger will do less damage with a damaging power than a Fighter with essentially the same power, regardless of how many targets are hit.

 

[keterys]

The ranger can do more damage if he hits more targets, which his increased movement might allow him to do.

Either way, the damage difference (~5 on each burst) is comparable to the possible distance moved.

If you don't like the power, don't take it. It's not out of balance - if you want to pick on powers for being out of balance, there are plenty of targets.

 

[hong]

The ranger does more damage to 1 target, and can then bamf away.

The fighter does more damage to several targets, if they are all adjacent to him.

This seems to fit the striker/defender distinction.