Cruel Reaper (fighter) vs. Wandering Tornado (ranger)

[hong]

Also, why on earth is "total damage to multiple targets" being treated as a meaningful metric?

If you're fighting more than about a half-dozen monsters, there's a good chance that a lot of them are minions. In that case, you only need 1 point to take them down.

 

[Zurai]

The ranger does more damage to 1 target, and can then bamf away.

No. The fighter does more damage. A fighter that picks that power is going to be a 2h weapon fighter and chances are he's going to be wielding one of the 2d6 damage weapons. A ranger that picks their equivalent power is going to be wielding a 1d10 weapon (bastard sword, battle axe, etc).
The fighter is going to deal 4d6 (2 * weapon) + 6 (magic weapon) + 13 (1/2 level) + 8 or 9 (strength) + 1 (2h weapon mastery), times two. That's 8d6 + 56, or an average of 84 damage
The ranger is going to deal 1d10 (1 * weapon) + 6 (magic weapon) + 13 (1/2 level) + 8 or 9 (strength), times two, plus 3d6 (hunter's quarry). That's 2d10 + 3d6 + 54, or an average of 75.5.

 

[LightPhoenix]

The ranger gets a slight movement advantage (which really isn't all that, much less all that and a bag of chips) for a major damage disadvantage. A Ranger will do less damage with a damaging power than a Fighter with essentially the same power, regardless of how many targets are hit.

It seems to be your opinion that the movement is trivial. It has been my (admitted limited) experience in 4E that for melee strikers (Melee Ranger and Rogue) movement is not only important but paramount. Therefore, the added move balances the added damage. Perhaps your experience has been different, I do not know. However, I would say that your opinion is in the minority.

 

[Saeviomagy]

No. The fighter does more damage. A fighter that picks that power is going to be a 2h weapon fighter and chances are he's going to be wielding one of the 2d6 damage weapons. A ranger that picks their equivalent power is going to be wielding a 1d10 weapon (bastard sword, battle axe, etc).

Or, you know, just use his hunter's mark ability as a minor action.

One of the two.

 

[WhatGravitas]

It has been my (admitted limited) experience in 4E that for melee strikers (Melee Ranger and Rogue) movement is not only important but paramount.

What makes this power really shine for the ranger is: Use move action to close in, use Wandering Tornado to move out, use the shift to get behind your friendly defender friend and then mow down some additional enemies.

This is basically ranged area damage, whereas the fighter only covers a larger area in his vicinity.

Cheers, LT.

 

[jasin]

Every ranger I've seen has picked either Str or Dex and used that, making Wis the second stat (putting it in the 22 to 28 range by 28th), take that as you will.

28 is the absolute maximum stat possible. I don't think many rangers will have that in Wis.

Also, for melee rangers with Wis rather than Dex as their second stat, doesn't that mean their AC is really crap?

 

[Zurai]

Or, you know, just use his hunter's mark ability as a minor action.

One of the two.

Did you even bother reading? I figured in the 3d6 Hunter's Quarry damage. Or did you not bother to read the description of Hunter's Quarry (not Mark, that's WoW) either? It's once per round. You don't get it every time you hit the creature. You get it once per round.

28 is the absolute maximum stat possible.

30, actually; you're forgetting +2 to 2 stats from being a Demigod. Your point stands, however. Very, very few Rangers will get anywhere near 28 Wisdom.

 

[Victim]

28 is the absolute maximum stat possible. I don't think many rangers will have that in Wis.

Also, for melee rangers with Wis rather than Dex as their second stat, doesn't that mean their AC is really crap?

Not if they get some armor proficiencies.

 

[Zurai]

By the way, I'm willing to accept that other people put higher weight on the movement benefit Wandering Tornado provides. Maybe I will, too, once I get the chance to actually play some 4E; I've only been able to DM it so far.

It's my opinion that the extra damage outweighs the extra movement, at this time. It's a fact, though, that Cruel Reaper does more damage, even considering Hunter's Quarry. I'd appreciate if people didn't keep bringing that up like it's some trump card.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Controllers are supposed to be better at dealing out damage to multiple enemies.

Then how come Fire Storm (cleric) is the most damaging area spell at level 19?

Daily ✦ Divine, Fire, Implement, Zone
Standard Action Area burst 5 within 10 squares
Target: Each enemy in burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 5d10 + Wisdom modifier fire damage.
Miss: Half damage.
Effect: The burst creates a zone of fire that lasts until the end of your next turn. Enemies that start their turn in this zone take 1d10 + Wisdom modifier fire damage.
Sustain Minor: The zone persists.

vs.

Cloudkill
Daily ✦ Arcane, Implement, Poison, Zone
Standard Action Area burst 5 within 20 squares
Target: Each creature in burst
Hit: 1d10 + Intelligence modifier poison damage.
Effect: The burst creates a zone of poisonous vapors that lasts until the end of your next turn. A creature that enters the zone or starts its turn there takes 1d10 + Intelligence modifier poison damage. As a move action, you can move the zone 3 squares.
Sustain Minor: The zone persists.

So moving it 3 squares as a move action balances 1/5 the initial damage and not dealing any damage on a miss?

EDIT: Oh, and Firestorm doesn't hit your allies, while Cloudkill does. That is a MASSIVE advantage.