D&D 5E Curse of Strahd spoiler-filled general discussion

Am I wrong, or is this the plot of Wuthering Heights?
To be honest, I've never read it.

So he wasn't born evil, but being a rich nobleman just made him a supervillain. See, I don't like tha: there's nothing that separates Strahd from any other nobleman. He's just rich and possessive. That's a personality, not a background. The trigger for him being evil is absent. The moment where he really falls into corruption - or in the words of the Ravenloft setting, the Act of Ultimate Darkness that makes him a darklord - is absent.

Well, if you're looking for "that one thing that totally made him go evil last Sunday!" I think that's precisely what they're trying to write out of the story. This isn't Strahd who woke up on Tuesday as a happy-go-lucky lordling and then bumped his head on the tub Friday and woke up an Evil Supervillain on Sunday (he was unconscious for 24+ hours). It's the slow descent into evil this time around. Strahd was a conquerer and his conquests became more and more depraved over time in order to fight off bigger and scarier threats until. Evil by inches. Soon Strahd was making evil pacts for more power to destroy his enemies, to control his people. No, there isn't a "sudden snap" into evil. There's a slow descent and honestly that's much much much better writing. The girl drama should be tangential.

Because he was already super evil mass murderer who forced an alliance with dark forces for immortality, killing his brother just seems like another day. Heck, it's even impulsive act in response to Tatyana rather than sought out and premeditated like all the other stuff he'd done.
I think, with the better writing, you're supposed to see that Strahd still had a "soft spot" for friends and family, that's why after all the evil things he'd done, his friends and family were still alive and that the "final moment" is him losing that last little shred of humanity. Which is GREAT writing. The whole time Strahd knows he probably should just kill his brother and force Tatyana to love him at sword-point, but he wants her to want him. And that sort of obsession with "true love" both drives him forward into evil and insanity and it's the realization that he can't have it that is what totally breaks him.

But it doesn't matter to me if they haven't stopped because I stopped giving them my money 8 and 5 years respectively. The rare times I do buy a comic now, I give my cash to their competitors.
I didn't like it so I voted with my wallet and haven't looked back.
It's like $50+ a month I get to spend on tabletop or video gaming.
I'm saying it happens to everything. Ravenloft was not the most well-written story, it was a very baseline representation of "gothic horror" at the time. What we remember of old Ravenloft (the AD&D module) is more that we liked it and less its actual quality. It's actual writing quality was low. It's biggest offering was a low-magic, Victorian-set gothic horror game in a system that was typically about mid-level magical fnatasy with elves and dragons and that sort of stuff.

Much like the other things you've referenced, Romeo and Juliet is widely regarded in literary circles as poorly written. It is considered a classic in Western Literature partly because of its age, who wrote it, the fact that the English thought they were soooo superior, and that much of the literature it was stolen from (Ancient Greece/Rome) was lost or hidden away at the time. Star Wars is much the same, it's NOT well written, but its regarded as a classic because there was so little like it at the time.

I'm in the middle of reading Dracula, for example. It's a good book, but its fairly shallow. The plot is pretty obvious, it's not particularly campy but it's not exactly thrilling either. The same is true of Tolkein, he's a great storyteller, but his writing leaves much to be desired. This is basically a truism of Ravenloft as well, the story, the concept, the themes are all good, but the actual writing of that story is not. Rewriting the story, retelling it with some elements added, some removed, some changed isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing. It shows that we've learned and grown and now we're better equipped to make a better story!

But this is all very much a matter of perspective. I enjoy "living" stories. Stories that each time they're told they grow a little bit, change a little bit. Some people don't. You sound like you don't like that. That's fine. I don't think there's a whole lot more to discuss here though. I like the changes (they're not perfect, but they're IMO, an improvement); you don't, okay.
 

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By my reading of the timeline, Strahd made the pact with the Dark Powers after the death of his father and the conquest of Barovia but before the beginning of construction on Castle Ravenloft. That mean it was several years before he killed his own brother. During that whole time, the Dark Powers were tempting him with immortality -- "Just kill your brother and you can live forever!" -- and Strahd resisted. Hell, Strahd probably thought he was a virtuous badass for "conquering" this temptation and not giving in to such vile darkness.
 

Well, if you're looking for "that one thing that totally made him go evil last Sunday!" I think that's precisely what they're trying to write out of the story. This isn't Strahd who woke up on Tuesday as a happy-go-lucky lordling and then bumped his head on the tub Friday and woke up an Evil Supervillain on Sunday (he was unconscious for 24+ hours). It's the slow descent into evil this time around. Strahd was a conquerer and his conquests became more and more depraved over time in order to fight off bigger and scarier threats until. Evil by inches. Soon Strahd was making evil pacts for more power to destroy his enemies, to control his people. No, there isn't a "sudden snap" into evil. There's a slow descent and honestly that's much much much better writing. The girl drama should be tangential.
Which is fine, but isn't very Ravenloft. One of the big "things" of the setting was that the darklords each crossed a line. They had a singular moment of pure evil where they made a choice, and chose darkness. And they were damned for it, cursed as much as blessed.

Now, if Curse of Strahd jettisoned all the setting content (like Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) and didn't give Strahd the trappings of a darklord or mention the rest of the demiplane, that's fine. It's just a different take on the story. I may not like it, but it's a reboot. Like the nu-Trek.

But, CoS didn't go that route. They made Barovia a domain, evoked the Dark Powers, name-dropped "Darkon" and included vanRichten.
By having Strahd already evil they changed one of the big rules of the setting, one of the hooks. It's like making a Dark Sun adventure and completely changing how defiling, sorcerer-kings, and the Dragon worked. Or a Dragonlance campaign story where the motives of the Kingpriest and cause of the Cataclysm are changed.


You can play Curse of Strahd as part of a larger Ravenloft campaign, but you have to make changes. You have to work around revisions. Because the writers didn't do the work or put in the effort, every DM now has to. And, generally, in the Ravenloft community, the opinion is that Curse of Strahd has joined Lord of the Necropolis, Enemy Within, and Desmond LaRouche from RLMC2 as non-canon parts of the campaign setting.

But this is all very much a matter of perspective. I enjoy "living" stories. Stories that each time they're told they grow a little bit, change a little bit. Some people don't. You sound like you don't like that. That's fine. I don't think there's a whole lot more to discuss here though. I like the changes (they're not perfect, but they're IMO, an improvement); you don't, okay.
I enjoy living narratives. I like seeing stories evolve and grow with layers and additions added over time, building and expanding on what has gone before. Additive changes that make things richer and more detailed rather than revisionary changes that just take away.
 

Much like the other things you've referenced, Romeo and Juliet is widely regarded in literary circles as poorly written. It is considered a classic in Western Literature partly because of its age, who wrote it, the fact that the English thought they were soooo superior, and that much of the literature it was stolen from (Ancient Greece/Rome) was lost or hidden away at the time. Star Wars is much the same, it's NOT well written, but its regarded as a classic because there was so little like it at the time.

I'm in the middle of reading Dracula, for example. It's a good book, but its fairly shallow. The plot is pretty obvious, it's not particularly campy but it's not exactly thrilling either. The same is true of Tolkein, he's a great storyteller, but his writing leaves much to be desired. This is basically a truism of Ravenloft as well, the story, the concept, the themes are all good, but the actual writing of that story is not. Rewriting the story, retelling it with some elements added, some removed, some changed isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing. It shows that we've learned and grown and now we're better equipped to make a better story!

No offense, but you just trashed Stoker, Tolkien, and Shakespeare. What DO you consider a well-written story?
 

Okay, discussion of Strahd's backstory aside, I still think Strahd needs more of an active goal he's working towards the second half.

Maybe expanding his borders.
Or perhaps moving his prison to the Forgotten Realms, tying in that world a little more.
Maybe he wants to increase his power. Perhaps there's something in the Amber Temple he wants to claim and use to increase his vampiric might. Perhaps he wants to remove some of his vampiric weaknesses.
 

No offense, but you just trashed Stoker, Tolkien, and Shakespeare. What DO you consider a well-written story?

Well written? I dunno. I'll have to think about that for a while. I still think Dracular, Tolkein and Shakespear tell great stories, which I find more important than great writing most of the time. Unfortunately a lot of things that are considered "great writing" in literature circles aren't necessarily great stories. Like The Grapes of Wrath is largely considered well written, and I would agree. But it is also something I would never read more than twice in my life.
 

*sighs*

Well I just want to extend a big "thank you" to Chris Perkins for putting me off yet another D&D product by ruining things and adding his goofy "stench" to things.

I'm glad I read this thread before I went out and wasted my money. This was actually something I looked forward to.
 
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