Custom Monsters and Races: Chris Perkins says yes you can!

[Lizard]

It does sound like it will go pretty fast. I could imagine it really being something as simple as, "Pick the level, category (minion/regular/elite/solo), and class (soldier/brute/skirmisher/artillery) of the monster you want to build. This gives you all the stats for the monster. If you want to vary them, here is a set of mechanics for doing that, or you can just keep them exactly as written and your players will never notice. The chart also tells you that you get to pick X standard actions, Y minor actions, and Z immediate actions from the table for the monster's special abilities. If you want to make up new ones, here's a rubric for what's appropriate. You can give the monster gear, but you don't have to, and it doesn't change the stats at all - it's just fluff." That would absolutely thrill me.

Agree, up until the last sentence. The idea that gear is a 'special effect' is really anathema. It means, for example, that gear-affecting power and abilities are either meaningless or have to be clumsily handwaved. If you don't know how much of the Ogres AC is his chain shirt, how much is his tough skin, and how much is his layer of caked on filth, you can't react properly when one of those things changes. The fact the pit fiend stat block doesn't break out 'armor from breastplate' and 'armor from being a devil' really bugs me.

 

[kennew142]

It does sound like it will go pretty fast. I could imagine it really being something as simple as, "Pick the level, category (minion/regular/elite/solo), and class (soldier/brute/skirmisher/artillery) of the monster you want to build. This gives you all the stats for the monster. If you want to vary them, here is a set of mechanics for doing that, or you can just keep them exactly as written and your players will never notice. The chart also tells you that you get to pick X standard actions, Y minor actions, and Z immediate actions from the table for the monster's special abilities. If you want to make up new ones, here's a rubric for what's appropriate. You can give the monster gear, but you don't have to, and it doesn't change the stats at all - it's just fluff." That would absolutely thrill me.

This has been my impression as well. I don't think there has been enough preview material for us to say for sure, however. I'm imagining that the monster itself will have abilities that combine with the monster category, class and level to give us the totality of the statistics. If this is the case, it will be much faster.

 

[The_Pugilist]

Monsters had Sevice Level Agreements?

"Those f^%&*(# goblins had a 20% abandonment* rate again last quarter! Fire them** and hire*** some kobolds instead!"

Handy Corporate Dungeon Translation Footnotes.
*-They failed to stab 20% of all adventurers during the last 3 months.
**-Kill them and feed them to the ogres...
***-...then send the same ogres to enslave**** some kobolds.
****-"You should each have a kobold sack. For each kobold you put in your mouth, another should go in your sack. Parts of kobolds do not count and you will not be given any credit for 'pre-nibbled' slaves".

 

[Scribble]

Unless we're talking about different things, they published the monster 'classes' (Giant, Outsider, yadda yadda) in Dragon and online pretty soon after the MM. Yeah, they should have been IN the MM (and were in 3.5), but it wasn't THAT bad.

Yeah, I'll agree for monsters. (And yes it should have been in the MM from the start) But there were other formulas in there as well. Like spells, and class powers and feat levels, and race powers, and magic item stuff...

Even stuff like your stat bonus is stat - 10 divided by 2...

I'm not saying by any means that it was impossible. Just harder then it should have been when it was clear that formulas were used. Why not explain that stuff?

 

[xechnao]

It does sound like it will go pretty fast. I could imagine it really being something as simple as, "Pick the level, category (minion/regular/elite/solo), and class (soldier/brute/skirmisher/artillery) of the monster you want to build. This gives you all the stats for the monster. If you want to vary them, here is a set of mechanics for doing that, or you can just keep them exactly as written and your players will never notice. The chart also tells you that you get to pick X standard actions, Y minor actions, and Z immediate actions from the table for the monster's special abilities. If you want to make up new ones, here's a rubric for what's appropriate. You can give the monster gear, but you don't have to, and it doesn't change the stats at all - it's just fluff." That would absolutely thrill me.

This.

 

[rkanodia]

Agree, up until the last sentence. The idea that gear is a 'special effect' is really anathema. It means, for example, that gear-affecting power and abilities are either meaningless or have to be clumsily handwaved. If you don't know how much of the Ogres AC is his chain shirt, how much is his tough skin, and how much is his layer of caked on filth, you can't react properly when one of those things changes. The fact the pit fiend stat block doesn't break out 'armor from breastplate' and 'armor from being a devil' really bugs me.

I guess I've reached the point of 'mechanics minutiae exhaustion' where I just don't care how much comes from 'being a devil' and 'wearing armor'. I would have no problem at all with the Pit Fiend taking off his breastplate and facing no mechanical penalty. He's a Level 26 Elite Leader, and if that entitles him to an AC of 44, he gets an AC of 44. Now, if a player has some ability that reduces a foe's armor class, that's a different story - he takes the penalty. But that's only because it's the result of a PC's actions.

I don't want to get an elegant formula for deciding stats, and then be tasked with the job of running backwards through the PC stat system to 'justify' the output:

"Looks like this Gnoll Basher is supposed to have an AC of 27 and speed of 5 - oops, gnolls can wear armor, so that means I have to drop his natural AC to 19 and give him plate mail, but now that drops his speed to 3, so I'm going to bump his base speed to 7. Man, this is such a hassle - but if I just give him the AC of 27 naturally, then what's stopping him from putting on plate mail and going to AC 35?"

 

[Lizard]

"Looks like this Gnoll Basher is supposed to have an AC of 27 and speed of 5 - oops, gnolls can wear armor, so that means I have to drop his natural AC to 19 and give him plate mail, but now that drops his speed to 3, so I'm going to bump his base speed to 7. Man, this is such a hassle - but if I just give him the AC of 27 naturally, then what's stopping him from putting on plate mail and going to AC 35?"

See, I like playing "dress up" with monsters.

I'd rather start with a gnoll, natural AC 15, and see "Bashers should have AC 19-21", and decide "OK, we'll give him +5 from a Chain Shirt +1" or "OK, he's going to drink a Potion of Stoneskin just before the fight" or some other means to "up" him to 20 in a way which is mechanically consistent and which can be adjusted. Dispel magic to undo the stone skin, a rust spell or a rending attack to destroy the shirt, etc. 4e is supposed to give people all sorts of k3w1 p0w3rz, it would be a shame if none of them are debuffing/equipment damaging.

I just can't deal with the whole "This gnoll has a higher AC than his archer friend because he went to Basher School at Gnoll College."

 

[rkanodia]

See, I like playing "dress up" with monsters.

I'd rather start with a gnoll, natural AC 15, and see "Bashers should have AC 19-21", and decide "OK, we'll give him +5 from a Chain Shirt +1" or "OK, he's going to drink a Potion of Stoneskin just before the fight" or some other means to "up" him to 20 in a way which is mechanically consistent and which can be adjusted. Dispel magic to undo the stone skin, a rust spell or a rending attack to destroy the shirt, etc. 4e is supposed to give people all sorts of k3w1 p0w3rz, it would be a shame if none of them are debuffing/equipment damaging.

I gave an example of a PC having a debuffing skill - one that would lower the Pit Fiend's AC. I have no problem with that. But I think we just have very different styles - I think things like your stoneskin example should be the exception, not the rule. Or rather - I would prefer to see options like that be included in the chart of 'reasonable special abilities for a creature of this level', and not taken into account in the base stats.

I just can't deal with the whole "This gnoll has a higher AC than his archer friend because he went to Basher School at Gnoll College."

I guess it just doesn't bother me. He got his higher HP the same way.

 

[xechnao]

See, I like playing "dress up" with monsters.

I'd rather start with a gnoll, natural AC 15, and see "Bashers should have AC 19-21", and decide "OK, we'll give him +5 from a Chain Shirt +1" or "OK, he's going to drink a Potion of Stoneskin just before the fight" or some other means to "up" him to 20 in a way which is mechanically consistent and which can be adjusted. Dispel magic to undo the stone skin, a rust spell or a rending attack to destroy the shirt, etc. 4e is supposed to give people all sorts of k3w1 p0w3rz, it would be a shame if none of them are debuffing/equipment damaging.

I just can't deal with the whole "This gnoll has a higher AC than his archer friend because he went to Basher School at Gnoll College."

I think, they will never be able to take account and balance out all that sort of things you are asking in a toolset for the DM. I am afraid if they try this way it will ruin what good they can do.

I think this is just over d20's systems limitations.

 

[Dragonblade]

It does sound like it will go pretty fast. I could imagine it really being something as simple as, "Pick the level, category (minion/regular/elite/solo), and class (soldier/brute/skirmisher/artillery) of the monster you want to build. This gives you all the stats for the monster. If you want to vary them, here is a set of mechanics for doing that, or you can just keep them exactly as written and your players will never notice. The chart also tells you that you get to pick X standard actions, Y minor actions, and Z immediate actions from the table for the monster's special abilities. If you want to make up new ones, here's a rubric for what's appropriate. You can give the monster gear, but you don't have to, and it doesn't change the stats at all - it's just fluff." That would absolutely thrill me.

This is exactly what I'm hoping for as well.