D&D 5E Custom Race ability - Proficiency in a skill, Expertise, or advantage?

[CapnZapp]

(Disclaimer: These assessments are based on my personal experience; YMMV.)

Some of those skills are much better than others. I feel sorry for the Azala, who get Nature or Medicine, two of the least used and least useful skills; Laveri don't fare much better (I've seen Religion checks slightly more often than Nature or Medicine).

The thing with 5th Edition is that this matters much less than in previous editions, and yes, I think this is a good thing.

(What you do in order to get the skill(s) you really want is make a selection that results in a skill you already got. Then you get to make a new choice, completely unrestricted, i.e. from all skills! And since you usually get such selections both from background and from class, this is much more generous and player-option-friendly than before)

Yes, this does mean you will end up with Nature/Medicine. But very much unlike previous editions, that does not prevent you from getting skills you want too.

Bottom line: I think 5E does a great compromise between skills-as-background and skills-as-useful-tools. I think it's perfectly fine to not consider game balance when assigning skills to classes, backgrounds, and races - precisely because you get all three and as soon as there's a duplicate (which there will be if you want it to be, since you get to choose all these yourself) BOOM you got a free skill selection.

So, okay, Nature/Medicine might be weak choices. But not nearly as weak as in previous editions. Leaving them as-is is fine.

 

[CapnZapp]

How so?

Are you serious?

I guess you are.

That would explain why you would replace "hide behind ally" with merely Stealth proficiency... let me spell it out:

Any Halfling Rogue would get Stealth proficiency anyway, so for them, this racial benefit would amount to "one free skill pick". No more, no less.

But "hide behind ally" isn't just annoying. It's also super powerful. It allows halflings to do something nobody else can do.

It's powerful mechanically - but you're supposed to get Sneak Attack fairly easily anyway, so that's not the main draw.

The main draw is how this defines and redefines Halflings as supreme badasses. One second he's there, and the next - where did he OUCH THE AGONY

Please reconsider before removing perhaps the coolest ability in the entire PHB...

 

[Psikerlord#]

Are you serious?

I guess you are.

That would explain why you would replace "hide behind ally" with merely Stealth proficiency... let me spell it out:

Any Halfling Rogue would get Stealth proficiency anyway, so for them, this racial benefit would amount to "one free skill pick". No more, no less.

But "hide behind ally" isn't just annoying. It's also super powerful. It allows halflings to do something nobody else can do.

It's powerful mechanically - but you're supposed to get Sneak Attack fairly easily anyway, so that's not the main draw.

The main draw is how this defines and redefines Halflings as supreme badasses. One second he's there, and the next - where did he OUCH THE AGONY

Please reconsider before removing perhaps the coolest ability in the entire PHB...

The most annoying ability in my view. how good/powerful it is depends on your DM and how they interpret hiding in general (how they handle pop outs, do they impose disad on hiding in teh same spot, etc etc - how many threads have there been on hiding).

Halfling rogues would still be plenty powerful, just like any other rogue. If a players wants easy SA available all the time (in melee at least) - just go swashbuckler from UA.

 

[S_Dalsgaard]

If the only races you had in the world were Humans, I'd agree with you. However... I didn't get from Dragonsbane777 that that was the case. It seemed like not only would there be Human sub-cultures... but there would also still be all the other races.

Now what is the biggest differences between the Races in the game? It's physical traits. Elves get +2 to DEX while Humans only get +1 because it's to illustrate that Elves on the whole are usually more dexterous as a race (a +1 higher DEX on average). But what happens if you decide that a Human sub-culture you create are a seafaring race, and thus give them free proficiency in Acrobatics (or even further, Expertise in Acrobatics if you also took the skill with your class or background?) You're saying that this human sub-culture on the whole is more agile in a certain physical way that elves are. Now sure... elves as a race on average are slightly better are using Finesse weapons and dodging fireballs... but any physical dexterity they are worse than this human sub-culture.

To me... that kind of ruins the differences I feel there should be between the Races. When two Humans could be that different physically compared to a Human and a Dwarf... then what's the point in having dwarves? Maybe that doesn't bother other people... but I just feel that the differences between two Humans (regardless of sub-culture) shouldn't ever feel as big as the difference between a Human and another Race entirely, because it just makes that other race lose what is special about them compared to the humans. That's my feeling at least.

That's a very good point.

 

[Dragonsbane]

Appreacite the input!

Here is the info on the humans, in case anyone has suggestions:

Subraces

There are at least eight subtypes of humans, all similar statistically, but with separate cultures, languages, and physical features that can be generally divided by the areas of Nigal in which their cultures developed. They include:

Azala
The humans that originated in the southeastern portion of Nigal are known as Azala, named after their first ruler dating back to pre-history. These slightly shorter yet slightly stockier humans have varying degrees of tan to dark skin, with brown and black hair and brown and sometimes green eyes. They would be comparable to the natives of the South American nations of the real world, specifically Brazil and Peru. Their language is known as Zalato, a combination of letters and pictograms with strange combinations of sounds and double vowels.

Chak’ti
The humans originating near the largest freshwater lake in the central portion of Nigal, the Lake of Tears, are known as the Chak’ti, the name of their people meaning “horse” in their language. They are taller and stockier than other humans, and have tan to yellow skin colors and dark hair and brown eyes. They could be compared physically to the Asiatic races of the real world, specifically those from Russia, China, and the surrounding areas. Their dialect is known as Chak’atan, a rough and guttural language with harsh consonants and sound effects.

Ejiin
The humans originating from a large string of islands known as the Yashaki, or the “Warlord’s Pearls”, southeast of the main continent of Nigal, are known as the Ejiin, which in their dialect simply means “person”. These slightly shorter and average build humans have lightly tan to yellowish skin and black hair and brown eyes, and would be physically comparable to the Asian races of our real world, specifically Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. Their language, known as Ejao, is a flowing language with a wide variety of sounds that emphasize different parts of the same words for different meanings. The written form consists of thousands of pictograms that can be written in an artistic form, an Ejiin art form said to take decades to truly master.

Madronians
The humans originating in the area known as the Inner Kingdoms are known as Madronians, with the name of their peoples originating from the name of one of their ancient rulers from pre-history, Madron. Madronians are of average height and build and lighter complexioned skin, with a wide variety of hair and eye colors, with red and blonde hair not uncommon and blue and green eyes intermingled with more abundant brown eyes. Madronians could be compared physically with the Caucasian races of the real world, specifically those from France, England, and Germany. The regional dialect of the Madronians is known as Madra, a flowing language with over fifteen vowels and many silent letters.

Laveri
The humans that originated from southwestern part Nigal, on the Lavantine Peninsula, are known as the Laveri, a name of unknown historical origin. Laveri are of average height and slightly stocky build and skin ranging from olive-toned to darken colors, with mostly browns and blacks for hair color and brown eyes. They could be compared physically to the Mediterranean races of the real world, specifically those from Greece and Northern Africa. They speak Laveran, a language that contains only oral vowels and very contrasting consonant combinations.

Nonds
Humans originating from the Frozen Isles, a set of islands on the northern coast of Nigal are called Nonds, a word that means “honor” in their regional dialect. These slightly taller and stockier humans have brown and red and blonde hair and blue and green eyes as well as brown. They would be comparable to the Caucasian races found in the real-world, specifically those from Norway and Sweden. The Nond speak a language known as Nondalhiem which contains many vowels with varied accents as well as interesting and sometimes harsh double consonant sounds.

Sabonaar
The humans originating from the lands known as the Merchant Nations are known as Sabonaar, named after an ancient empire from pre-history. Sabonaar are of slightly taller than average height, and have a slightly darker complexion than their northern neighbors. They have almost exclusively dark hair and eye colors andcould be compared physically with the southern European peoples of the real world, specifically those from Spain, Portugal, and Italy. The Sabonaar predominately speak a regional dialect called Sabo, a practical language that is spelled phonetically and that the old Trade language and now Common draw from greatly.

Varkonan
The humans originating from the remote southern coastal lands south of the Lake of Tears are known as the Varkonan, the term for “god-king” in their ancient language. One of the earliest races, they have black hair and dark tan skin, and would be physically comparable to the Egyptians of our real-world. Originally made of pictograms, the language of Varkonae eventually transitioned into its own alphabet which greatly expanded accessibility of the written form of Varkonae to its people.

 

[Beleriphon]

Yes.

The class abilities and magic items granting "always on" advantage strikes me as wonky rules design.

It robs those characters of the otherwise potent and important drive and impetus to gain advantage, since they have it already, and "more advantage" doesn't stack.

Well, most class features with always on advantage seem to have it only apply to very specific functions of that class, which usually lead to it being circumstantial by nature. Magic items I'm willing to give pass since most of them do so rather than an actual bonus.

 

[CapnZapp]

Well, most class features with always on advantage seem to have it only apply to very specific functions of that class, which usually lead to it being circumstantial by nature. Magic items I'm willing to give pass since most of them do so rather than an actual bonus.

Here we are discussing a proposal that grants advantage as a class feature, which is the opposite of specific and circumstantial.

 

[CapnZapp]

Magic items I'm willing to give pass since most of them do so rather than an actual bonus.

I understand that you like how they avoid giving static bonuses and how that works within the framework of bounded accuracy.

But "always on" advantage is a poor solution.

Yes, it doesn't strain bounded accuracy. But it means a lot of situations no longer helps you.

In effect, always on advantage makes you exist outside the world.

Advantage is supposed to be the mechanism whereby you are granted a bonus in favorable circumstances. It really should not be used anywhere else, or the game is robbed of its ability to make you feel the impact of those favorable circumstances, since advantage doesn't stack.

"Circumstancial advantage" (if I may use this phrase) is okay, since it means that, yes, you might encounter "double advantage" and not get any added benefit. This is okay since it keeps the game simple, stops the bonus hunt, keeps bounded accuracy working and doesn't happen often.

In other words, it's a rather extreme simplification. It only holds together if you can justify the advantages by it not happening very often.

Always on advantage blows this very important condition right out the water. So it really shouldn't be used. Not even for magic items: even though you might argue these are optional and under the DM's control, once such an item is in the PC's hand, the damage is done. Then it is no longer "optional" or "controlled by the DM". Then it really is always-on, much like a class or race feature, with as much detrimental impact on the game mechanics.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

The Half-elf gets +2 CHA, +1 to two stats, 2 skills, Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, and 2 languages. Your Human subraces need something more, though I would steer clear of expertise.

Maybe racial/cultural weapon proficiencies?

I also instantly compared them to half elves and found them wanting.

Weapon proficiencies are more or less "ribbons", to use the designer's terms. Mainly fluff abilities with little meaningful benefit. If you're going to be good at fighting, you will generally already have them from your class. If you arent, you probably don't have the strength to leverage that greataxe proficiency anyways and should just use your damage cantrip.

I'm not a fan of giving expertise as a racial ability (or in general really). It breaks the math even further to make one PC the "go to" guy for any particular skill, and leave everyone else as their helpers. One of the reasons 5E went with smaller numbers was to keep everyone relevant. These humans can't do anything unique, they just get more math on their side. To me, that's a bit dull.