Cutting Back the Power Level

[Drowbane]

28 pt Wiz

- Str 8
6 Dex 14
10 Con 16
16 Int 18
- Wis 8
- Cha 8

Be a halfling to make that 6, 16, 16, 18, 8, 8. So you're impulsive, anti-social, and physically weak... you can still nuke!

Now, try to make a decent Monk on 28pts... not happening (unless you cop out with a Str - grapple monk with no AC). Clerics are also painful on 28pts.

Note to the Op: if your players whine overmuch... suggest that they could instead roll 3d6 in order.

 

[Drowbane]

oops

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, 28-32 will make fine characters. Just remind them that they don't actually NEED those 18's.

 

[The Levitator]

I don't personally see how anyone allowed a point buy system can whine at all. We must be the last of a dying breed, still rolling 4d6 for stats. My players won't do a point buy because they like the challenge of devloping a character based on randomly generated attributes. It sounds like they have a been just a little bit spoiled. Maybe you could offer to offset it with more magic item availability or something. I don't honestly see what the big deal about 4 points is, but if you're players do, they won't have any fun. And since fun is the main objective, it might be risky to twist their arms too much. It sounds like they had a ton of fun in the previous campaign. Perhaps you could challenge them a bit to just tump in and see how they adjust to it. We once played a campaign where everyone rolled 3d6 (not in order though). Their stats were laughable, and they still made it to I think about 8th level.

Remind them that roleplaying isn't about the stats, it's about the story! It sounds like they trust you as a DM so I can't imagine they would think that you would go out of your way to kill them.

 

[Dagger of Lath]

It's certainly not impossible to play characters at 28, our GM (much to our dismay) made us play characters at 22 for the latest game and we're still going fine. As long as you start with a 16 in a primary spellcasting attribute, then the full range of spells is available to you by the levels you get them. (IIRC, since my books are at home). Making any class a possibility with that many points.

BTW, if you want to bring a game "down" in power, strictly enforce carrying capacity. Players hate it at first, but it eliminates the whole checklist of magic items syndrome.

 

[Ellie_the_Elf]

Hi all,

Thanks for all of your input

Yes, most of the problem is thinking they 'need' an 18 in their primary stat, then still wanting the other abilities relatively high (especially those that help their characters survive, like dex and con)

We usually generate stats by rolling, but I'm fairly relaxed about what they can reroll, and I've previously allowed a certain amount of choosing what stats they want and going with those. Yes, I do realise I have brought most of the problems I'm having now on myself- but this kind of thing matters a lot less to me when I'm writing the adventures myself because I can take the higher abilities into account when designing combats.

The point about carrying capacity is a good one- at the moment they all have bags of holding/handy haversacks so we don't really worry about it too much. I'll look through their sheets and see how much difference that would make.

One of my players has now decided he is not playing at all due to 'all the restrictions'. As well as the PB, I've limited them to PHB classes only, dropped action points, taken away the free regional feat I was giving them at first level (although they get a free trait if they come from the Cauldron region), and dropped a house rule increasing skill points for some classes by two per level. I've made them aware that treasure levels will be lower, as we're running prewritten adventures, so they'll get what's in the book - at the moment they tend to be about one level ahead of the DMG in terms of treasure, since I have a tendency to give out slightly too much. This player tends to gravitate towards more unusual class choice and had previously decided he wasn't playing due to the PHB-only rule, then changed his mind, so he may change it again.

Of the others, one is supportive of the lower power level, and I think another is warming to the idea, and would probably be fully on board with the rest of the restrictions if I were to increase points slightly. The other two are unhappy at the moment, but I'll discuss increasing the points to 30 or 32 with them tonight and see if that helps.

 

[Vrecknidj]

It's curious. The players who cringe at certain kinds of restrictions, I'd think, are feeling that they're being deprived of something. I'd think it's not about the game, really. I mean, what difference does it make? Playing is playing. Either the players trust the DM or they don't. If they trust the DM, then they could play commoners with 20-point buy, and things would still work out okay because the DM is creating a world to cater to the specific power of those characters.

I usually don't give much compassion to cry-baby players. Then again, I've been DMing for more than 20 years and the players who know me know that I'm not a character killer, so they can afford to develop the character they really want to develop whatever my limits happen to be.

Dave

 

[Land Outcast]

I somehow suffered from the same, my group gradually increased the power level until now they decided 12 modifiers was a "decent spot".

Yes, 12 modifiers.

14 10
14 18
14 18
14 18
14 10
14 10

well... Impossible to ever get them to point buy (I know that modifyer buy is of a similar mechanic, but it's not me, it's them).

Admittedly I was exhasperated, until I decided to switch to a more fluid DMing.

I consider them to be a party with a general +1 level adjustment.

That has fixed things.

 

[Cheiromancer]

What level game is this? If you intend to start at first level and run to 20th level, you might consider starting them off very low stats (e.g. 28 point buy, but scores start at 6, not 8) but then fiddle with the way level based ability modifiers work. Have the normal +1 to one stat at level 2, 6, 10, 14 and 18, and have +1 to *each* stat at levels 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20.

They would basically start out as ordinary citizens of your game world, but their stats would be truly heroic at high levels.

 

[Imruphel]

Land Outcast,

I use 42 points for point buy in my games which is equal to 6 14s. As per your suggestion of treating the APL as one level higher, I just beef up the opposition a tad (I use 25, 32 and 36 points for NPCs and monsters based on how critical the NPC is to the overall story) and it works out fine. However, I'm now thinking that perhaps I should drop the XP awards as if their APL was one level higher than normal.