[CW] Elusive Target

[Pinotage]

I have a few questions regarding this tactical feat, specifically the Cause Overreach part.

When you get a trip attempt as part of Cause Overreach, how does that work if you're not wielding a trip weapon, but say a greatsword? Do you need to use an unarmed strike for the trip and hence draw a second AoO (if the opponent has Combat Reflexes) from the opponent before you can trip? Is the sequence like this: leave threatened area, opponent AoO misses, second AoO for unarmed trip, cause overreach unarmed trip?

What about if you have Improved Trip? Do you get a melee attack as part of the trip attempt should it succeed? In this case there would be no second AoO against the trip.

Thanks!

Pinotage

 

[azmodean]

I'd say no follow up with Improved trip in this situation, it's very similar to that feat, er, knockdown? from sword and fist.

Slight terminology correction, you aren't making an unarmed strike when you do a trip attack, you are making a trip attack. As to the question, if you don't have improved trip, then yes, you would provoke an attack of opportunity, which would be resolved before your trip attempt.

 

[Saeviomagy]

As to the question, if you don't have improved trip, then yes, you would provoke an attack of opportunity, which would be resolved before your trip attempt.

So, does someone using knockdown provoke an AoO when they're not using a trip weapon?

 

[Brain]

From a flavor / vision point of view, I see the elusive target moving by, causing the opponent to eagerly strike out with their weapon and become unbalanced as they miss. This is what I'd say is tripping the opponent - their own momentum.

That being said, to keep that flavor, I'd go straight to the opposed roll (so no AoO or touch attack needed) and not allow improved trip to grant a free attack if it was successful.

I'm not trying to say that is the way the rules are written, but rather what I'd say if I were DM and the issue came up.

 

[pbd]

I agree with Brain, from the wording you get a "free" trip attempt which would imply going straight to apposed roles. No AoO incurred.

pbd

 

[Pinotage]

Sounds reasonable. Certainly I prefer the trip attempt to not involve Improved Trip or additional AoO. I'll have a look at the Knockdown feat as well and see if it has anything to say on the matter. Thanks!

Pinotage

 

[azmodean]

The refrence to knockdown was just a comparason with the improved trip extra attack. With knockdown, if you do more than a certain threshold of damage with a melee attack (20 I think), you would get a free trip attempt. Some people claimed that you should then get a free melee attack from improved trip. Seems pretty silly to me, I was just comparing the situation. With knockdown you don't provoke an AoO because you have already made contact with the melee attack.