Sagan Darkside
First Post
Re: Perfect subject line...
Is the Cloud Giant from Oerth or Faerun?
SD
Lord Zardoz said:
Is the Cloud Giant from Oerth or Faerun?
SD
D&D 3E: the Death of Imagination?
- Thread starter Tom Cashel
- Start date
- Status
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
Maple Leafs suck.
Tom Cashel
First Post
Lord Zardoz said:
Probably true. But it generated a discussion. LET'S GO RANGERS!
The Sigil said:
Not at all!
In fact, I've been thinking about the exact example you provide (well...not exactly...I was thinking of the NHL rather than the NBA), and your suggestions are fantastic. Keeping the rulebooks out of the way during the game is so simple and elegant, yet somehow counterintuitive. Not wrong, just not the first solution that comes to mind, you know?
"No instant replay review."
To those of you who are truly offended by my original post, sorry...but I'm having a crisis of faith here. Although it is worded in such a way as to provoke responses rather than politely request them, I'm not just trolling. I really am looking for ways to counteract the "3E Effect" that some others have also noticed. I appreciate any attempts at helping me overcome the problem.
Walter J, your advice re: not giving up is well-taken. As is the idea of just playing for a while until I get my groove back.
Now let's get in as many posts as we can before Henry locks the thread.
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
Re: Perfect subject line...
25, assuming that it's clothed, and climbing someone draws an attack of opportunity.
(C'mon, 8 more people to go!)
Daniel
Lord Zardoz said:
25, assuming that it's clothed, and climbing someone draws an attack of opportunity.
(C'mon, 8 more people to go!)
Daniel
Tom Cashel
First Post
Re: Perfect subject line...
Why? What did it ever do to you?
Lord Zardoz said:
Why? What did it ever do to you?
Sagan Darkside
First Post
Re: Re: Perfect subject line...
It killed his Pa and tried to steal the ranch.
Quite sad, actually.
SD
Tom Cashel said:
It killed his Pa and tried to steal the ranch.
Quite sad, actually.
SD
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
CANUCKS ALL THE WAY!
TC: the apology was well-considered but not necessary, in my opinion. A little belligerence isn't a bad thing, and as you said, it did provoke a swarm of responses.
I recently tried playing with a new group, of which a couple of members obviously had nothing but contempt for 3E. It was very strange, playing a game with people who did nothing but complain about the game system. They spent so much time complaining about how crappy the game system was that they never knew what was going on in the game, and everything ground to a halt everytime it was their turn. It was incredibly frustrating.
Thing is, I guess, that it's important to keep in mind that the system is far from the most significant factor as far as fun gameplay goes -- IF everyone treats all systems equally. But often that's not the case and it sounds like your group plays very differently in 3E than they do in Storyteller games. This group I sat in on would probably be tons of fun to play something like MERP with, or Godlike, but they just couldn't stop picking apart 3E's idiosyncracies and it got really tedious.
I'm reading a book on Directing Actors (it's actually called Directing Actors, by Judith Weston, and if you're interesting in the craft of film direction it's a must-read) and the author talks a lot about script analysis. One thing she says is that when you come to a script as a director, you MUST assume that the script is good. You must treat it as though it's brilliant, and take advantage of any apparent problems in it as opportunities to find unexpected truths. Otherwise you will lose faith in your own material, and be unable to get enthusiastic participation from your team.
I think that it behooves a DM of any system to, while a session is in play at least, to act as though the system worked great. Treat any gaps in the rules or overpowering as interesting challenges to be overcome. If there are too many rules governing too many situations, instead of sitting passively and letting players look things up, just rule 0 and say you'll look it up later. The "replay review" idea -- don't change the call in question but acknowledge that there is a rule to cover that situation and NEXT time, we'll use that.
If the DM is saying, "I can't figure this stuff out. Why are there rules for all these things?" then the players will take that tone and run with it.
I guess another part of what I'm saying is that a DM has to take some responsibility for the attitude of his players. If your players have become ruleshounds who won't allow you any creativity or improvisational space, why is that? What have you done to create that environment? And, more importantly, what can you do to change the environment into some more fun for yourself?
Maybe switching systems IS the answer. Maybe not. But I just think that blaming the problem on 3E is maybe failing to look at your own culpability.
The Canucks are SO winning the Cup.
TC: the apology was well-considered but not necessary, in my opinion. A little belligerence isn't a bad thing, and as you said, it did provoke a swarm of responses.
I recently tried playing with a new group, of which a couple of members obviously had nothing but contempt for 3E. It was very strange, playing a game with people who did nothing but complain about the game system. They spent so much time complaining about how crappy the game system was that they never knew what was going on in the game, and everything ground to a halt everytime it was their turn. It was incredibly frustrating.
Thing is, I guess, that it's important to keep in mind that the system is far from the most significant factor as far as fun gameplay goes -- IF everyone treats all systems equally. But often that's not the case and it sounds like your group plays very differently in 3E than they do in Storyteller games. This group I sat in on would probably be tons of fun to play something like MERP with, or Godlike, but they just couldn't stop picking apart 3E's idiosyncracies and it got really tedious.
I'm reading a book on Directing Actors (it's actually called Directing Actors, by Judith Weston, and if you're interesting in the craft of film direction it's a must-read) and the author talks a lot about script analysis. One thing she says is that when you come to a script as a director, you MUST assume that the script is good. You must treat it as though it's brilliant, and take advantage of any apparent problems in it as opportunities to find unexpected truths. Otherwise you will lose faith in your own material, and be unable to get enthusiastic participation from your team.
I think that it behooves a DM of any system to, while a session is in play at least, to act as though the system worked great. Treat any gaps in the rules or overpowering as interesting challenges to be overcome. If there are too many rules governing too many situations, instead of sitting passively and letting players look things up, just rule 0 and say you'll look it up later. The "replay review" idea -- don't change the call in question but acknowledge that there is a rule to cover that situation and NEXT time, we'll use that.
If the DM is saying, "I can't figure this stuff out. Why are there rules for all these things?" then the players will take that tone and run with it.
I guess another part of what I'm saying is that a DM has to take some responsibility for the attitude of his players. If your players have become ruleshounds who won't allow you any creativity or improvisational space, why is that? What have you done to create that environment? And, more importantly, what can you do to change the environment into some more fun for yourself?
Maybe switching systems IS the answer. Maybe not. But I just think that blaming the problem on 3E is maybe failing to look at your own culpability.
The Canucks are SO winning the Cup.
The Sigil
Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
Thanks. It is perhaps slightly counter-intuitive, but I think it helps mitigate the problem you've been having.Tom Cashel said:
The trade-off, is, of course, that it puts a bit more of a burden on you as DM with regard to your rules knowledge; you have to bone up on the rules a little better than usual because without the rulebooks, you have no "safety net" to work with.
Usually, though, you can "fudge and fake" everything but spell effects; it's probably a good idea to keep a set of 3x5 cards at the table for the spells your PCs know - list the spell effects on them, along with any notes you care to make. If they use Summon Monster spells, you can also keep 3x5 cards with monster stats like hp, AC, attack bonus, and damage. Perhaps make the 3x5 "spell cards" the exception to the rule.
Glad the analogy helped.
--The Sigil
- Status
Similar Threads
