D&D 4.0 - What the?

[Brother Shatterstone]

Fewer classes? I'd push for a classless system if I thought anybody'd listen to me. There has to be some way to balance this idea, but please hear it out (if you can still hear it over the sound of sacred cows dying in excruciating agony): No classes.

That's what I hopeful, see post number 2, but if it's not possible I want as many classes as possible as it's the only way to customize characters it seems.

 

[DaveMage]

i said the same thing over 24 years ago.

And every day since.

(But we wouldn't have you any other way, man - keep the faith.)

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

Everyone's so down on Vancian Magic. What in particular is the problem you guys have?

Too constraining from a toolkit, make-my-own-world point of view. Keep the notion of spell levels (1-9, plus cantrips) but remove the necessity of preparing specific slots each day which may or may not be appropriate to the particular feel one is attempting to create with a setting.

Vancian magic is okay as a listed and described alternate model, but the core game (not some much later on alternate product) shoudl have a generic toolkit approach first and foremost.

 

[A'koss]

Originally posted by Francisca:

So, what is 3.5 + the upcoming Unearthed Arcana? 3.51 -- 3.75 depending on how much you adopt? Is UA a massive playtest for elements of 4.0, or stuff from the cutting room floor from 3.5? (a little of both I'd wager).

My guess is that UA is going to be a testing ground for new concepts for 4.0. Dunno whether it has been planned that way, but I think it will be the end result.

Actually, Andy Collins (the lead designer on UA) did touch upon this a while back in a roundabout way. "...The best-case scenario is that the player base latches on to a few of the new or adapted variants in a big way, which pushes publishers (including even WotC) to support them, and in turn leads eventually to them being integrated into the core game experience at some point down the line. No one's foolish enough to believe that every option in this book will receive such a reaction, but that's OK--I think there's something in there for everybody.

On the other hand, what's the worst-case scenario? People use the book like they would any other, taking what they like and ignoring the rest. In that case, we've put in some extra work for little or no payoff, but the average gamer isn't impacted by this in the least. Oh well, back to the drawing board."

Personally, I pretty hyped about UA, I've already adopted a slightly modified "Reserve Points" rule for our LM game.

Cheers,

A'koss.

 

[Protean]

Although there are a number of rules I'd like to see changed, I know that my preferences do not conform to those of the intended D&D audience. What really grizzles me however is the lack of any sort of roleplaying primer for the uninitiated. D&D is the roleplaying game that most folks take their first furtive steps into the hobby with. It should be much more user friendly, for new players and new DMs alike. I know we all get tired of reading this stuff folks, but the stewardship of the unititiated should be part of the books if the hobby is to ever grow.

sorry for the rant guys. It was written with the best of intentions in mind.

 

[MerricB]

What really grizzles me however is the lack of any sort of roleplaying primer for the uninitiated.

Something like this?

D&D Basic Boxed Set (due Autumn/Fall 2004)
http://www.enworld.org/reviews/index.php?sub=yes&where=currentprod&which=DBS

A brand-new boxed set designed to give those new to roleplaying an introduction to, and a good understanding of, the D&D game experience. It contains everything needed to generate characters and run encounters, including a complete set of roleplaying dice, streamlined rules drawn straight from the Dungeons & Dragons v3.5 core rulebooks, and miniatures from the D&D Miniatures line. In celebration of the 30th Anniversary of the Dungeons & Dragons brand, this box was named for a classic boxed set from the first years of the game's history and is a great way for current players to introduce the game to a whole new generation.

Cheers!

 

[Orius]

I personally don't think we're going to be seeing D&D 4E anytime soon.

People like to complain that Hasbro, being a big evil corporation, only wants to separate us from our money, and is simply looking for the next new product that is going to make us run to the stores and pick it up en masse.

That, however, isn't giving Hasbro enough credit. These people spend huge amounts of money on market research, getting into the minds of the people they sell to. They're not going to be so foolish as to do something that would so brazenly upset the very people they want to sell to.

I suppose it comes down to how well they know the market. Do they do enough research on D&D players, or are they essentially as clueless as Lorraine and the Blumes? I think it's a legitimate point to be a little worried about.

And how much direct control does Hasbro have over the game as opposed to WotC?

 

[RangerWickett]

Chapter Three: Classes and Levels
Level basics. As mentioned before, a stat increase every even level. A feat at first level and every third level. You get these bonuses regardless of class. There is a basic saving throw advancement chart (everyone gets +1 to all saves every 3rd level), and you can get better saves with proper feats or talents, since you're going to have lots of each.

Core Classes - Expert, Fighter, Mage. Each class gets talents every odd level and bonus feats every even level. The Expert is our skills guy, who can cover the role of scout, bard, diplomat. The Fighter is our physical combatant, filling the role of swashbuckler, thug, knight, archer, or martial artist. The Mage is our magic guy, filling the role of summoner, mind-reader, blaster, and shapeshifter. Each of these classes has 20 levels.

Advanced Classes - Arcanist, Bard, Berserker, Commander, Holy Warrior, Knight, Monk, Necromancer, Psion, Ranger, Rogue, Sage, Spellsword, Swashbuckler. These classes each have only 10 levels, and you can get into them as early as third level.

 

[Protean]

Something like this?

D&D Basic Boxed Set (due Autumn/Fall 2004)
http://www.enworld.org/reviews/index.php?sub=yes&where=currentprod&which=DBS

A brand-new boxed set designed to give those new to roleplaying an introduction to, and a good understanding of, the D&D game experience. It contains everything needed to generate characters and run encounters, including a complete set of roleplaying dice, streamlined rules drawn straight from the Dungeons & Dragons v3.5 core rulebooks, and miniatures from the D&D Miniatures line. In celebration of the 30th Anniversary of the Dungeons & Dragons brand, this box was named for a classic boxed set from the first years of the game's history and is a great way for current players to introduce the game to a whole new generation.

Cheers!

It looks like you caught me, beset by my own ignorance. I'll have to give it a gander, but by the same token I still would like to see some a more user-friendly approach to D&D in the core rules, including means of supporting differing approaches to D&D built into the core game, most likely in the new DMG. Thanks for the info Merric.

Protean

 

[Orius]

Actually, Andy Collins (the lead designer on UA) did touch upon this a while back in a roundabout way. "...The best-case scenario is that the player base latches on to a few of the new or adapted variants in a big way, which pushes publishers (including even WotC) to support them, and in turn leads eventually to them being integrated into the core game experience at some point down the line. No one's foolish enough to believe that every option in this book will receive such a reaction, but that's OK--I think there's something in there for everybody.

Well, wasn't that the case with the original UA, weren't some rules and ideas from that book later pulled into 2e?

And later the Player's Option books inntruduced ideas to 2e that became standard for 3e.