D&D 4E D&D 4E Presentation videos

$10 a month is cheap for what you are getting.

Online play, character generator, character visualizer, Dungeon, Dragon, etc. etc.

But expensive if you consider you might not want need half that stuff.

If you want Online play you can already do that for free or a one off payment with lots of different battleground programs.

The big selling point that I think DnD Insider offers is full compatibility with the 4E rules as the books are released.

So you buy a book, enter the code (pay another fee I believe) and you can add those features to your character.

Problems I see....

It's going to be per player subscription. So while in the old days you bought one copy of a book and shared it with the group, now each player will have to pay a fee to use the features of that book (I'm hoping books won't have individual seriel numbers so they have each own the book as well).

That would be too much IMHO.
 

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if my money situation changes anytime soon (and i hope it does, im working on it) then I still wont be paying for this. I like tangible things to hold in my hand. However, I might have to go the way of the digital table top if i want to keep my game together. Cause i Might be making a move. Hope I find new gamers where I go.
I would much rather spend my money on Roadrunner, Digital Cable, and X-box live as far as subscription services go that I dont need.
 

Bagpuss said:
So you buy a book, enter the code (pay another fee I believe) and you can add those features to your character.

I don't know where you got that impression, but I most certainly did not. From what was said, it sounded like each book has a unique serial code which is used just once to unlock the content for a single account. As no mention of requiring an extra cost was made, I'm assuming this is "free" (i.e. included in the price of the dead tree book).

In fact, it had better be free because to be otherwise would be a dealbreaker for me. One of the things I like about the idea is that it finally allows you to pay once and legally have both an analog and digital copy of the product. Currently I do almost all my prep work on my computer, with illegal PDFs of books I own because I'm not willing or able to pay even a discounted price, never mind full retail, for a PDF of a product sitting on my bookshelf. Books are great at the game table or for leisurely reading, but that's about it.
 

Uder said:
$70-80 a month for our whole group to keep up with D&D? No. Give me back my dead-tree subscription so we can pass issues around during the pizza break and laugh at the cartoons and talk about the articles.

Good point!

wedgeski said:
Make no mistake that the DI *is* a marketing ploy to tie D&D players into a subscription model. Folks in this thread alone have put their finger on several secondary benefits for WotC, especially the fact that it may take a big dent out of the second-hand market and reduce the ability for players to share material around the table (unless only the DM needs to have bought a book for all players in his game to use the material... but that's doubtful given that you'll be able to run a game for just about anyone).

I, for one, am uncomfortable with this business model. I also would rather pay upfront and own the material. I don't want WotC to be (literally) perpetually draining my bank account with more peripheral expenses (minis, tiles, subscriptions to play). Similar to green slime, I'm beholden to way too many services that drain my bank account on a monthly basis as it is. I am uncomfortable being a slave to them.

Plus, I already spend way too much time in webspace. The DI will encourage users to spend more time on line accessing digital media and tools. If I can take a book to the park or the beach or the divan, I'm a much happier human. I also have a secret love affair with books. There is something ineffably wonderful about reading them. They're things of beauty, books.

I see how the "virtual kitchen table" is a nice service for folks who can't play in a regular gaming group, but it is not the same as interacting with people face to face. The face-to-face friendships are the most valuable part of Dungeons and Dragons for me, not leveling or strategy or even story. I fear that over a long enough timeline, this online game model may become the dominant role-play paradigm. Out of sheer laziness and logistics, it is conceivable that this tendency could take over years down the road and become the norm. That possibility leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and it indeed may be the taste of WoW's leftover "cookie."

EDIT: [FROTHY-MOUTHED RANT] This dovetails with one of my little technology rants ... networking and communications technology is often touted as improving communication. I personally cannot fathom how adding extra layers of technology between people can ever improve communication. When interacting in person, communication is maximized. Each layer dilutes and distorts the quality of interaction. Granted, if two people are separated by distance, communication via technological portals is better than nothing. There is a price, though, to be paid in taking this technology for granted as we absorb it into our everyday lives. For example, young people's social reliance on texting, l337speak, email, cell phones, myspace, facebook, iPods, MMORPGs, etc has given rise to a generation of kids who cannot effectively write or even communicate. This kind of social illiteracy is literally becoming a national epidemic. Accepting the virtual tabletop into your regular game may also have consequences, especially if you find yourself inclined towards using it more often than not. Even if you believe that you're having rich and wonderful relationships online, in the end you're in a room by yourself, closed off physically from the rest of the world ... from the pejorative meatspace (a space I personally believe to be much healthier). I wince to see that D&D is joining this trend, with both DI and MMORPGs. It is inevitable, admittedly, but still, I am not thrilled by the prospect. [/RANT]
 
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Dragonblade said:
$10 is cheap! Sign me up!! EVERYTHING I have heard so far about the insider and 4e I'm liking. Bring on 4e!!!

Greetings!

Dragonblade! Hey! Yeah, the videos looked very cool, huh? I think there's a lot of outstanding potential in the Digital Initiative, with running scenarios, and so on. It looks very impressive! I'm surprised! This does look very exciting! 'Bout effing time though! :D

In many of our conversations, you know I thought that WOTC screwed up a lot of digital potential with E-Tools, in 3.0. They should have done a lot of this stuff for 3.0, and certainly for 3.5E. Still, it looks like they are finally "getting it" in the digital department! I'm glad to see that, for sure.

I'm still angry, however, at the timing, and the thought that thousands of dollars I have spent on buying a whole library of 3.5E books is seemingly invalidated *snap* just like that, you know? It's frustrating.

I'm hopeful though that 4E will really be a massive improvement of the game, and somehow...make it worthwhile to switch completely over.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 

Asmor said:
I don't know where you got that impression, but I most certainly did not.

It was on another press release.

From what was said, it sounded like each book has a unique serial code which is used just once to unlock the content for a single account. As no mention of requiring an extra cost was made, I'm assuming this is "free" (i.e. included in the price of the dead tree book).

In fact, it had better be free because to be otherwise would be a dealbreaker for me.

See a unique serial number would be a deal breaker for me, say as DM I bought the Eberron 4E campaign guide, I want to be able to give that code to my players and then they enter it (for a nominal fee) and they can use the online content of the book. If it's unique then everyone of my players needs to buy the Eberron 4E Campaign guide before we can even start a campaign.

Currently we tend to share books in our group, so we might have a few of copies of the Complete Warrior, Divine, etc. Everyone has a players handbook, the GM will have the setting guide. In your model everyone would have to have every book before we could use the DnDInsider for our game at all.

One of the things I like about the idea is that it finally allows you to pay once and legally have both an analog and digital copy of the product.

How about the players who rightly say "But I don't have a DnDInsider account and we only play with real dice and paper and pencils, why should I be paying for digital content I will never use?" If it's like a $1 extra for digital content with the code would it be so bad?

This way I buy the campaign book and give the code to my mates, the spend the dollar, and can read the bits they need to design there characters using the DnDInsider account and character generator they are paying for monthly. We can then all either play online or print out our character sheets to use at the table.

I can bring my copy of the book to the table but in the down time everyone can access the online version to prepare. You end up creating a gaming group virtual library.

My way works out cheaper for the group as a whole, and will incourage them to sign up to DnDInsider for the content. Your way will probably stop groups using the DnDInsider at all.
 

dragonlordofpoondari said:
Good point!



I, for one, am uncomfortable with this business model. I also would rather pay upfront and own the material. I don't want WotC to be (literally) perpetually draining my bank account with more peripheral expenses (minis, tiles, subscriptions to play). Similar to green slime, I'm beholden to way too many services that drain my bank account on a monthly basis as it is. I am uncomfortable being a slave to them.

Plus, I already spend way too much time in webspace. The DI will encourage users to spend more time on line accessing digital media and tools. If I can take a book to the park or the beach or the divan, I'm a much happier human. I also have a secret love affair with books. There is something ineffably wonderful about reading them. They're things of beauty, books.

I see how the "virtual kitchen table" is a nice service for folks who can't play in a regular gaming group, but it is not the same as interacting with people face to face. The face-to-face friendships are the most valuable part of Dungeons and Dragons for me, not leveling or strategy or even story. I fear that over a long enough timeline, this online game model may become the dominant role-play paradigm. Out of sheer laziness and logistics, it is conceivable that this tendency could take over years down the road and become the norm. That possibility leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and it indeed may be the taste of WoW's leftover "cookie."

Greetings!

Hmmm...that is a rather sobering thought. Good observations!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 


I really like the new art and cover design.

As for the DI, it looks nicely done at least. I like how they don't try to emulate MMORPGs with animated monsters or stuff like that and even put the 3d avatars on mini bases. That's a cute touch.

I don't know if I like the idea of using a digital tabletop, but I guess in the end dungeon, dragon and online support will get me.

However, one thing seems clear to me, while extensively marketed right now, the DI is not the heart of D&D, it's a snazzy option.
 

Asmor said:
The DI keeps tracks of what books you own with unique serial numbers in each book, which you input to unlock the content. That means that, for example, if I purchase a hypothetical 4th edition Magic of Incarnum, and tell my players that they are free to create incarnates, they don't actually have the ability to make incarnates unless they purchase the book as well.

Does this mean I can buy a book, input the code, and then sell the book? What happens to the poor guy that buys a second-hand book when the code has already been used?

Is the code sealed in some way? If not, what happens when I buy a book from Borders and find out someone was already in the store and copied the code down (and has already used it)?
 

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