D&D 4E D&D 4e = Traveller: The New Era?

[mhensley]

There are some striking similarities between what wotc is doing with 4e and what gdw did with Traveller: TNE.

1. Major changes to the rules system that were generally regarded as improvements.
2. The campaign setting was blown up (TNE-virus, FR-spellplague) to redesign it as a points of light setting.
3. Serious retconning of flavor. (TNE- lasers now suck, reactionless engines no longer possible, etc. : D&D- new races, vancian magic gone, etc.)
4. Much of the redesign was done in an effort to appeal to new gamers.

The result for Traveller: TNE was that the majority of the fanbase hated it and gdw went out of business shortly thereafter (not all TNE's fault but it must have been a factor). I hope wotc knows what they are doing as I really want 4e to succeed. I had big hopes for TNE at one time too though...

 

[Simon Marks]

Yes, but I am seeing a lot of similarities between D&D 4e and the new World of Darkness.

In fact, point for point the same things are true.

The result? WW don't seem to be crashing and burning.

So, all in all - it could go either way. Right?

Don't worry, Be happy!

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

Dude...OUCH.

 

[Kevin Brennan]

GDW's going out of business was unrelated to TNE. I understand that the biggest factor was buying a warehouse that turned out to be contaminated and therefore unusable. But yes, my first reaction to hearing the FR changes was that they were essentially doing to it what TNE did to the Imperium.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

The result for Traveller: TNE was that the majority of the fanbase hated it and gdw went out of business shortly thereafter (not all TNE's fault but it must have been a factor). I hope wotc knows what they are doing as I really want 4e to succeed. I had big hopes for TNE at one time too though...

I think the relative size of the fan base for Traveller v. D&D is probably something to take heart from, however.

 

[Bagpuss]

And some Traveller fans think the New Era is the better version. But then I am insane.

 

[mhensley]

I think the relative size of the fan base for Traveller v. D&D is probably something to take heart from, however.

True, I'm not sure there is/was such a thing as a casual Traveller player. It's like a Jeff Foxworthy thing- "If you've played Traveller, you might be a grognard".

 

[mhensley]

And some Traveller fans think the New Era is the better version. But then I am insane.

Yes, that's a prerequisite for liking TNE.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

And some Traveller fans think the New Era is the better version. But then I am insane.

As far as I can tell, TNE's rules are very solid; the issue many Traveller fans had with it was the demolition of the Imperium (in a way which wasn't plausible in either the real world or in the Third Imperium setting).

That said, I think the game got unfairly maligned, partly because a considerable fraction of the player base was unwilling to accept any change, let alone as big changes as TNE brought. The established fans are probably the biggest advantage, and the greatest disadvantage, that Traveller has.

So, is 4e going to be D&D's TNE? No, I don't think so. The "implied setting" of Traveller, from which the Third Imperium grew, was pretty intrusive from the beginning, and there was only one Official Traveller Universe most players gamed in (or something very much like it). D&D, on the other hand, has had a plethora of settings, some of which (Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer) have already differed a lot from the implied, pseudo-medieval-with-magic universe. Even if WotC blew up FR, the effect on D&D gaming community would be lesser than that of GDW releasing the Virus into Traveller, and I don't think that either Spellplague or the rules changes are going to blow up FR or any other campaign setting.

 

[Bluenose]

As far as I can tell, TNE's rules are very solid; the issue many Traveller fans had with it was the demolition of the Imperium (in a way which wasn't plausible in either the real world or in the Third Imperium setting).

That said, I think the game got unfairly maligned, partly because a considerable fraction of the player base was unwilling to accept any change, let alone as big changes as TNE brought. The established fans are probably the biggest advantage, and the greatest disadvantage, that Traveller has.

So, is 4e going to be D&D's TNE? No, I don't think so. The "implied setting" of Traveller, from which the Third Imperium grew, was pretty intrusive from the beginning, and there was only one Official Traveller Universe most players gamed in (or something very much like it). D&D, on the other hand, has had a plethora of settings, some of which (Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer) have already differed a lot from the implied, pseudo-medieval-with-magic universe. Even if WotC blew up FR, the effect on D&D gaming community would be lesser than that of GDW releasing the Virus into Traveller, and I don't think that either Spellplague or the rules changes are going to blow up FR or any other campaign setting.

I thought the TNE rules had a lot going for them. They were an improvement in many ways on the MT material. I actually used them in my own homebrew Traveller setting for a while. The biggest problem was the spaceship combat rules.

As for the setting, I know people who still can't have a civil conversation about it. Just avoid bringing it up if they're in the same room. So far at least that doesn't seem to have happened with 4th edition.

Anyone interested in proofreading 5th edition D&D, if it's going to follow the progression and be like Traveller's 4th edition? Didn't think so.