D&D Advertising & D&D Lite

[barsoomcore]

Maybe it's just a bad idea?

This idea has been tried a number of times. I'm not sure it was ever very successful and I suspect there may be good reasons as to why.

There's only so far you can "dumb down" a game like D&D before the essential qualities of it begin to vanish. This is true with any game, but with D&D I argue that the "dumb point" is much higher than with a game like Monopoly. In fact, I would argue that it's so much higher that it's not going to interest people who wouldn't be interested in D&D in the first place.

Kids don't really need the game because they run around playing roles on their own, without any encouragement or rules. Any little kid too dumb to figure out the rules to D&D is probably going to be happier with a toy gun shooting her brother from behind the couch. It's us grown-ups who need to have rules for all this stuff.

That said, there is certainly a spot between the dumb point and the current level of D&D complexity, and between wee tykes playing "Say" ("Say we're on the moon, and I'm the cat.") and grown-ups with no imagination -- and maybe that's a spot with enough of a market to make it worthwhile trying to grab it with a targetted product. I personally doubt it, but I have no actual market information to back that up. So I'm just going to spout my uninformed opinion in the smug belief that you'll all find it fascinating.

 

[Zulkir]

All,

As somone pointed out, even if we had the money for TV (which we are not even close to haing that kind of money) there is some evidence that it would not be that valuable.

We did the Adventure games but our research showed that the vast majority of people who bought that box had already been exposed to D&D. That doesn't mean we might not take a run at some sort of intor box again. Time will tell.

What we have found is that the vast majority of players are enfranchised in the same way - brought in by a freind.

So I ask all of you. What could WotC do that would make it easier/ more attractive/ cooler, whatever to bring more people into the game.

AV

 

[barsoomcore]

Here's some ideas, Anthony:

Strong convention presence, possibly even running conventions. Yeah, people who attend conventions are probably already players, but regular events begin to build word-of-mouth and goodwill within the community -- good will that can be a powerful evangelical force for any company.

Offer incentive to get people to bring more of their friends into the game, to get their friends to buy books. Maybe you don't want to go the Amway route () but you tried a similar program with Magic The Gathering -- do you know how well that one worked?

DMs are your most powerful sales force -- they're the ones who make it possible for others to play the game, so they're the ones you need to be supporting. Happy DMs whose job is made easier are DMs who can support more players -- which means more sales to you. Make your DMs happy.

That means less splatbook/player oriented stuff and more sourcebook/DM oriented stuff. Make the DM's job easier and more people will play the game.

DMs are also your adoption bottleneck -- the penetration of the game is always going to be limited by the number of DMs in the market. Players can't play without a DM -- so reduce the barrier to DMing, support your existing DMs and encourage them massively, and they will do your work for you.

It's all about the DMs. Said the DM.

But seriously, if I felt like WotC considered me important, and wanted to help me be a better DM, I'd be even more evangelical than I already am...

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I would love a basic D&D set, a rules lite version minus the feats and all the various mods. I'd never play 3e again.

 

[D'karr]

I would love a basic D&D set, a rules lite version minus the feats and all the various mods. I'd never play 3e again.

And this is exactly the reason why a D&D lite set would never be a good marketing idea.

If you spent 12 dollars to get a D&D lite but there was never any incentive for you to spend 90 dollars on the 3e Core Books, then a company would never make enough money to have an incentive to develop a D&D lite.

Anything they market needs to be a link to 3e, which I'm assuming is still their focus.

 

[Zaruthustran]

So I ask all of you. What could WotC do that would make it easier/ more attractive/ cooler, whatever to bring more people into the game.

Thanks for the reply Anthony, and thanks for asking the community for ideas (I hope this is a trend). But... you want Gamers to tell you how to make something cool?

Just kidding. Okay, here are some ideas:

1. Bring back the D&D cartoon. Okay, can't do that for $$$ reasons. Dang.

2. I work in the computer game industry. Some say (me included) that what really made computer games take off was the Gold Box D&D games. Pool of Radiance got many of the D&D players to stop playing D&D with buddies and start playing D&D with their computers. Well, now it's payback time. Continue introducing the legions of computer/console gamers to the D&D world. NWN, BG (for console & PC), and D&D Heroes are a good start. But you need to get that D&D MMORPG out there, and even more importantly you need to get a console game out there starring one or more Iconics. Console gamer identify with characters, not game systems or settings. You need to make Mialee into Mario.

3. Release D&D Lite. Get rid of AoOs, 5-foot steps, being able to choose feats and stats, and all that. Just make players play the Iconics. And streamline the combat round: no more Moves, Partial Actions, Full Actions, More-equivalent, or whatever. Instead, each player gets 1 and only 1 action: a move, a charge, a spell, an attack, whatever. Include dice, basic mins, and a battlemat. Keep it simple. Keep it fast. Make the cover art very heroic, something that would appeal to, say, jocks and wrestling fans: lots of big guys wearing either armor and uniforms or loin clothes and baby oil. Whoever had the idea of making Regdar's helm resemble a football helmet should get a medal.

4. Get more celebs to talk about D&D. Everyone knows that the 70's Show actors play video games. Everyone knows Tobey Maguire plays video games. Last night on ER, Noah Wiley mentioned video games. No one talks about D&D.

5. Speaking of That 70's Show: why don't those kids ever play D&D? Product placement!

6. Turn the RPGA into a pyramid scheme. For every gamer you recruit, you get 10% off the next WotC splatbook. For every gamer recruited by one of your recruits you get 5% off. Accumulate 100% and you receive the splat book for FREE.

7. Number 6 was a joke.

8. Tone down the nasty covers and geek imagery on WotC products and covers. The PHB, DMG, and FRCS were steps in the right direction. The MM and especially the MM2 were steps in the wrong direction.

9. Convince the Jackass guys to play D&D. The unwashed masses will imitate.

10. New TV show: America's Iconic

11. New TV show: Survivor: The Temple of Elemental Evil

-z

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

And this is exactly the reason why a D&D lite set would never be a good marketing idea.

If you spent 12 dollars to get a D&D lite but there was never any incentive for you to spend 90 dollars on the 3e Core Books, then a company would never make enough money to have an incentive to develop a D&D lite.

Anything they market needs to be a link to 3e, which I'm assuming is still their focus.

Well it doesn't have to be a 12 buck product. Something along the lines of the old basic D&D series. It would be one way for Wizards to get my money again, I haven't bought anything 3e since MOTP. Of course I am but one customer.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

So I ask all of you. What could WotC do that would make it easier/ more attractive/ cooler, whatever to bring more people into the game.

AV

Thanks for the response! Here's some crazy ideas off the top of my head:

Personally, I think D&D needs more of a sales presence -- you have to reach the Target/Walmart/Kaybee crowd in some form. Hence the boardgame idea -- but if the reserach says it won't work, probably not worth the initial investment.

I think it needs to be clearer to the novice what is needed to get into the game. There were D&D advertisements at my local Borders this summer -- which was great -- but nothing about the ads (in-store ads) said anything about WHAT to buy to get into D&D. The two-page D&D ad in Dragon was more informative than the ads posted next to the RPG books -- and I assume MOST purchasers of Dragon already play D&D. A one page flier that explained what you need to play the game, set on the display in the RPG section of the bookstore, might go a long way to do that.

D&D needs more visibility in game stores. Only one of six game stores I've visited in my local area has regular in-store D&D games/demos -- and that's the WOTC store. Most of them have Magic & Warhammer, though. Now, not all stores have gaming, and it is pretty much the captured market that shops there, anyway, so there isn't a LOT to be gained here. Breaking into Kaybee toys and Hobbytown USA would reach a slightly different demographic.

As game groups, we can advertise for new players. One member of my group has a standing invitation on the WOTC message boards (that's how I found them in the first place).

Tie advertising to media events. If there's an advertising blitz for D&D pre-Christmas, leading up to the fantasy movie releases, it might generate more business.

Game days at local schools/colleges/libraries? A friend told me about D&D, but I was propensed from reading fantasy literature. An association with library material might help -- reading=D&D.

Maybe a mini-rules package/excerpt (PHB-lite?) that could be produced in bulk and handed out at conventions, sold for <$5 at game/hobby/bookstores, or given away at "game days". The package (Like a 16 or 32 pager) might have enough information about the game for a novice to use it to sit in on a couple of D&D sessions with an experienced group to get the feel for it, and whet their appetite for the PHB.

Bring back the reduced ($20) price on the PHB only?

DM training?

Local RPGA chapters? I'm an RPGA member, but I can't even tell you what that means. I also fly model airplanes, and I'm a member of the local club -- the local club promotes itself, teaches people to fly, does a mall show and airshow once a year, has handouts in local hobby shops, etc. I can't think of a game store I've been in that had visible RPGA info. If there's enough members to run tournaments -- get them involved in promoting the hobby, not just participating.

OK, I'm rambling now. Shutting up.

 

[Zaruthustran]

If you spent 12 dollars to get a D&D lite but there was never any incentive for you to spend 90 dollars on the 3e Core Books, then a company would never make enough money to have an incentive to develop a D&D lite.

Well, unless the Lite version cost $2 to produce, and sold 10x as much as the Core set.

-z

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

3. Release D&D Lite. Get rid of AoOs, 5-foot steps, being able to choose feats and stats, and all that. Just make players play the Iconics. And streamline the combat round: no more Moves, Partial Actions, Full Actions, More-equivalent, or whatever. Instead, each player gets 1 and only 1 action: a move, a charge, a spell, an attack, whatever. Include dice, basic mins, and a battlemat. Keep it simple. Keep it fast. Make the cover art very heroic, something that would appeal to, say, jocks and wrestling fans: lots of big guys wearing either armor and uniforms or loin clothes and baby oil. Whoever had the idea of making Regdar's helm resemble a football helmet should get a medal.

I think something more along the lines of a GURPS lite idea would be better. Lite as in less rules, not as in less control.