D&D and the rising pandemic

[Zardnaar]

Again, none of that is true. Yes, the Health Act delegates a lot of power - to a Medical Officer of Health in very limited circumstances. The PM has no special powers. And, speaking as somebody who has actually been an officer given powers under the Health Act, while those powers are considerable - there are also lots of limits on them. Note the opening clause ”…if authorised by the Minister”. A MOH can have those powers whipped away in the instant by the Minister, not to mention that a MOH is an employee of a District Health Board - and can be sacked or suspended from the role if they abuse their powers.

And as for the Bill of Rights, while certain rights can be suspended in extreme circumstances (eg, a pandemic), that has to be approved by the Ministry of Justice’s BORA committee (note, that means neutral officials appointed by the State Services Commission, not politicians).

Yep but a lot of that is based on trust.

What if a PM appointed a compliant cabinet and abused the emergency powers.

They could ram through anything they liked. What if they rewrote the emergency powers or the bill of rights act?

There's nothing stopping them if they have a compliant parliament.

Public protest hasn't mattered since 1981.

NZ always scores high in things like corruption and trust in government. That's cultural though not from a legal PoV. Parliament can pass any law they like if they have the numbers or rewrite/repeal any law they don't like.

Look at the protests already about Jacinda abusing her powers. I'm not worried about her or even a theoretical abuse of power but by USA terms we elect a dictator.

USA has emergency powers but they can and will be challenged in the supreme court.

There's no real constitutional restraints on parliament here and the courts and police tend to look to parliament on clarification on intent and the spirit of the law is often used vs the letter.

It would be very easy from a legal PoV to turn NZ into an outright authortarian state. The only checks and balances on parliament is parliament itself.

 

[Mikeythorn]

I don’t know what you want me to say here. The goalposts keep moving. You said we elect a dictator every 3 years in New Zealand. I pointed out that this is not in any way true. Now you are talking about the powers held by a majority government (very rare under an MMP voting system) passing any law they want (they can’t, they can only propose laws - the politically neutral Governor-General can refuse to enact them) and the lack of a written constitution (which does have cons, it means change can happen quickly - but it also has even more significant benefits, it means change can happen quickly).

We could carry on this debate, but there doesn’t seem to be much point - and it is probably a huge thread jack anyway. So I am tapping out.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don’t know what you want me to say here. The goalposts keep moving. You said we elect a dictator every 3 years in New Zealand. I pointed out that this is not in any way true. Now you are talking about the powers held by a majority government (very rare under an MMP voting system) passing any law they want (they can’t, they can only propose laws - the politically neutral Governor-General can refuse to enact them) and the lack of a written constitution (which does have cons, it means change can happen quickly - but it also has even more significant benefits, it means change can happen quickly).

We could carry on this debate, but there doesn’t seem to be much point - and it is probably a huge thread jack anyway. So I am tapping out.

No I'm pointing out it's not hard to do whatever they like.

Prime minister appoints the governor general and can fire the GG.

 

[Mikeythorn]

Just. No.

Let‘s get back to the pandemic. Cases here are still on the rise, and Delta is going to be a real test for the ability of lockdowns and masking to eliminate Covid again. I am still feeling optimistic, but some of the spread we have already seen here (people standing in a hallway when a door to a room containing an infected person was open for 3-5 seconds) does leave me with some doubt. I will feel much happier once I get my first shot on Thursday.

 

[Hussar]

Our PMs have a lot of power domestically espicially if they have the support of their party.

Current one is the most powerful since 1938. We had one declear war on Germany and parliament backed them after the fact.

If your party has a majority and supports the PM they can more or less do whatever the hell they want. Rewrite the law check, rewrite constitutional law check, become a republic check, fire the governor general check declear state of emergency check, dissolve parliament check, remake the civil service check etc.

Right now current PM has a deathgrip on her party they're more or less completely dependent on her personal popularity. They have an absolute majority in a proportional system.

She personally appointment the cabinet which hasn't been done since 1938. The courts tend to look to parliament to clarify what they meant with the law.

I'm not worried but see the problem theoretically? The police arrested anti lockdown protesters for violating the health act whatever that is.

Do you not have provinces? Our Constitution cannot be ammended without all the premiers agreeing. As in, you have to get all 10 premiers (Canada has 10 provinces) to sign of on any Contitutional change. And it must be unanimous. And, frankly, the PM has zero power to force the issue with any provinces. Last time around, it was PEI, a province with about 100000 people who stopped Constitutional changes for the entire country.

 

[Zardnaar]

Do you not have provinces? Our Constitution cannot be ammended without all the premiers agreeing. As in, you have to get all 10 premiers (Canada has 10 provinces) to sign of on any Contitutional change. And it must be unanimous. And, frankly, the PM has zero power to force the issue with any provinces. Last time around, it was PEI, a province with about 100000 people who stopped Constitutional changes for the entire country.

Provinces yes but with no power in the parliament process beyond the local representative.

 

[Zardnaar]

Just. No.

Let‘s get back to the pandemic. Cases here are still on the rise, and Delta is going to be a real test for the ability of lockdowns and masking to eliminate Covid again. I am still feeling optimistic, but some of the spread we have already seen here (people standing in a hallway when a door to a room containing an infected person was open for 3-5 seconds) does leave me with some doubt. I will feel much happier once I get my first shot on Thursday.

Bad faith prime minister fires the governor general or wins an election promising NZexit and declears the country a republic. Or just withholds consent or nominates a stooge. In practice the queen just selects whoever gets nominated.

A governor general has never exercised their power either unlike Australia. A determined PM could easily sideline the GG or campaign on republicanism.

I don't see it happening anytime soon main point is domestically our PM has a lot more power than US president or Australian or Canadian PM or the UK PM. She doesn't have to deal with a senate, constitution, supreme court, governor's, premiers, house of Lords or the queen.

 

[Zardnaar]

Anti lockdown protesters on Sydney Australia clashing with riot police.


8 weeks of lockdown extended another 4 weeks. They've half assed it though and haven't flattened the curve with cases doubling every few weeks.

Local premier not good.

 

[Umbran]

Bad faith prime minister...

Mod Note:
Hey, dude. The guy has requested a change of topic. Enough. Move on.

 

[Cadence]

Planning my son's second virtual birthday party in a row. Hopefully in the spring we'll be comfortable doing a "halfy birthday party" in person.