D&D General D&D and War

[Reynard]

War as a backdrop is very common in fantasy literature. D&D even began its life as a wargame variant. Why is it, then, that it seems D&D does not do War very well at all?

Even after 30 years, the best War rules for D&D are the Companion set War Machine rules: strategic in nature with abstract tactics that can be employed at the table without completely overwhelming the more zoomed in personal heroics of play. But aside from that, it seems D&D has always reached for miniatures battle systems that did not mesh with regular play, or ultra-simple mass battle systems that are unsatisfying and under developed.

Note: I never got into Birthright, so maybe there are war and domain rules comparable in design quality to the Companion rules?

Also, I do not own the new Dragonlance book or board game. How is war handled in those?

Do you like war as a back drop to a D&D campaign, either as an ongoing problem or an imminent threat? how do you feel about incorporating war, mechanically, into your campaign? Do mass battles and other aspects of war come up in play? If so, do you determine outcomes through actual play or use some proxy or just narrate the results?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

War as a backdrop is very common in fantasy literature. D&D even began its life as a wargame variant. Why is it, then, that it seems D&D does not do War very well at all?

Even after 30 years, the best War rules for D&D are the Companion set War Machine rules: strategic in nature with abstract tactics that can be employed at the table without completely overwhelming the more zoomed in personal heroics of play. But aside from that, it seems D&D has always reached for miniatures battle systems that did not mesh with regular play, or ultra-simple mass battle systems that are unsatisfying and under developed.

Note: I never got into Birthright, so maybe there are war and domain rules comparable in design quality to the Companion rules?

Also, I do not own the new Dragonlance book or board game. How is war handled in those?

Because War is Hell.

More seriously, actually capturing the experience of warfare is a pretty difficult thing, and doing so in a way that produces engaging, entertaining, approachable gameplay is harder still.

Do you like war as a back drop to a D&D campaign, either as an ongoing problem or an imminent threat? how do you feel about incorporating war, mechanically, into your campaign? Do mass battles and other aspects of war come up in play? If so, do you determine outcomes through actual play or use some proxy or just narrate the results?

It can be a useful thing, but frankly, war as backdrop or ongoing problem tends to produce too much misery for my taste. Imminent threat can be interesting, since that makes it tension rather than misery, and it can feel like the players actually have a shot at preventing war from occurring. I haven't used actual war and I don't really think I want to--it seems like a lot of effort. In 4e, I would run it as a Skill Challenge, where the players are trying to influence the tide as special-ops or psy-ops types. In DW, it'd just be using existing moves in most cases.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I've had war come up a few times in my D&D campaigns.

In my first ever campaign back in High School the characters rallies troops for a war against the BBEG. I forget how we actually ran it, all I remember are 30 Orc Wizards all casting Magic Missile at the Paladin's Giant Eagle mount. So, we probably weren't doing it right

I played in a 4e game in which the high-level characters had to help out in a war. The DM ran it as a big skill challenge with everyone participating in generating scenarios. I remember at one point we were being targeted by a spell sniper, and the image of a sorcerer bracing his staff atop a sand dune and firing spells at range has always stuck in my mind.

I ran a 5e game modeled after a fantasy Aztec / Spanish Conquistadors setting. The characters were political agents gathering allies and strategies for an inevitable war. When the war finally broke out, we ran it as a mini game I created.

To me, war works best as a background or setting element, rather than as an actual adventure for the PCs. I'd much rather have the characters doing things to help the war effort, rather than leading troops.

Something that inspires my war scenarios is the Iliad. In those battle scenarios, it's much more about the named characters fighting rather than descriptions of troop movements and strategies (although there is the whole Trojan Horse bit). I'd much rather have the characters fight against the Hobgoblin General than have a hundred nameless soldiers battle against a hundred nameless hobgoblins.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Oh wait I forgot to make my joke:

Though I saw some WAR in 3e, it really became prevalent once Pathfinder took over d20.

 

[haakon1]

Yes, war or the threat of it is often a backdrop in my games. I find it helps focus the players and align them with the setting and care about what’s going on.

It can be helpful for hooks. I’ve used hooks like:
1) Bandit attacks on the North Road. The local militia is off at the front and someone needs to investigate to keep trade lines (and tariff income) open. This was my hook for Return to the Keep on the Borderlands.
2) Weapons shipments from the dwarves in the mountains are late and message says it’s because charcoal for steel making - and food - aren’t coming from the human village that supplies them. Hook for the Stone Circle.
3) A Baronet refuses to send his troops for muster. Says they are needed at home due to danger at home. Hook for adventure I created with half-Orc and orc lycanthropes.
And so on …

In 3 adventures, I’ve fought out battles with up to 150 or so combatants, using regular rules. It’s pretty interesting.

 

[Reynard]

In 3 adventures, I’ve fought out battles with up to 150 or so combatants, using regular rules. It’s pretty interesting.

How long did that take?!

 

[Oofta]

War as a backdrop in my games is fairly common, but I don't bother with tactical war. You can set up tactical combat where units are treated like monsters with attacks and defenses. Different units have different specialties with "archer" monsters, foot soldiers that just have a big pile of HP (soldiers), cavalry that's mobile and has better AC but fewer HP and so on. Attack damage getting reduced as the number of troops is slowly reduced. It works okay, but not something I'd do on a regular basis.

Instead what I generally do is make the group part of an elite unit with specific missions. They are the navy seals that sneak behind enemy lines or try to disrupt a supply line, escort missions and rescues, perhaps take out a bridge over an important river crossing and so forth.

So while I can hack out mass combat, small squad combat is simply what D&D does better.

 

[Tonguez]

I echo what others have said about keeping War as a background element and let PCS work as small elite specialist units tasked with certain objectives within the wider battle (disable the war machine, open the gates, slay a wizard).

That said tactical elements can be model as Terrain effects and Battle Feild control spells eg there's no reason Blade Barrier can't be a "Wall of Soldiers" that Players get to conjure (command) onto a battlefield as the PCs use the 3/4 cover to dash over a wall:

• Commanding Troops in formation works like spell effects (Walls, Difficult Terrain, Shield)
• Use Dynamic terrain (think of the Army as a Movable Lair with thematic Lair Actions)
• Platoons/Squads as monsters work ok when they are needed, but do so sparingly.

 

[Guest 7042500]

What do people think of when they think of war in this context?

 

[haakon1]

How long did that take?!

One battle was a single memorable session of maybe 6 hours. It was loosely based on Tirthon Tower from MERP, fought with AD&D 1e rules.

The others were in my email campaign so took months. They were more like mini campaigns with events leading up to them and before.

Actual big fight at the Keep of the Borderlands was sprawling across around 180 AD&D 1e rounds (so 1.5 hours of game time) with multiple small combats simultaneously with PC’s in 2-3 of them at a time. Hard to do live for sure. Based on Return to the Keep on the Borderland, which was written for 2e.

The other big fight in a city was a lot of organizing and scouting, but the pitched mass battle -which also has simultaneous action and PC’s split was only about 10 rounds. Massed missile fire fells people fast! Mostly my own creation, played in 3.5e.