D&D 5E D&D and who it's aimed at

[EzekielRaiden]

However I could feel my eyes glazing over at '....positivity, bright colours, peaceful solutions...' it simply holds no interest with me. These themes, drives, whatever simply do not appeal in what I view as a game about kicking in doors, killing bad guys, and taking stuff for profit.

I should have replied to this directly in addition to the above.

What prevents you from also doing that?

Absolutely and unremittingly peaceful solutions rarely work all the time. Hell, they rarely work in general. Conflict is a sad necessity sometimes, and I say this as someone who values pacifist solutions whenever they can be pursued. E.g., there is no negotiating with a mindflayer as they are usually depicted, where they can only live by eating the brains of sapient beings and require the deaths of sapient beings to incubate their young. Two of my favorite class archetypes are Paladin and Warlord, which specifically train for violent conflict.

Good things eventually coming to good people goes hand in glove with defeating bad guys (whether by violence or not). Positivity is pretty much orthogonal to everything you mentioned, other than toning down the Game of Thrones vibes and toning up the "Paladins and Princesses" ones, where you have Good Guys fighting Bad Guys and actually saving the day, where Han Solo goes from amoral gritty merc to heroic scruffy adventurer with a cool girlfriend and willingness to risk his life to ensure victory for the Rebels. (I reject the new movies' canon for the reason of it being really dumb, so the whole "abandoned all character development and became a static copy of his younger self" thing is irrelevant to me.) And, I mean, Superman fights evil and saves the day all the time, and he literally wears all three primary colors in extreme saturation. Can't get much more "defeat the bad guys" than that.

So...why assume the mere existence of these characteristics, which are mostly orthogonal or (in the case of peaceful stuff) simply won't work a decent chunk of the time, inherently means a no-adventure snooze fest? We can be engaging in a reconstruction, one that recognizes the value in the old ways but builds a new, wider perspective that includes more than just those ways.

 

[Retreater]

OK so...why are you in a D&D thread? Not that you CAN'T be in a D&D thread, but it's a genuine question as to why?

Fair question. I considered myself a 5e "mega fan" for several years. I purchased nearly every official book up through Tasha's in Nov 2020 - with the exception of the MtG setting books. I was running multiple games a week, spending a lot of time on messageboards, social media, etc.
But then it hit me I was getting very disillusioned with the products. Adventures were dipping in quality. Some of them were barely run-able as presented (Dragon Heist).
And for someone who has run nearly every official adventure for 5e, I hope that something new will be announced that will get me excited for 5e again. So I'm a lapsed fan. I spend a lot of time on these boards discussing 5e, because it's honestly the only game in town. I (think) I know enough about it to contribute to discussions, and I hope I bring something to the boards (despite my grumpiness).

 

[Jacob Lewis]

I'll try not to speak for anyone else. My reasons for not being on the 5e bandwagon has little to do with who I think it's target audience might be. From where I sit, I imagine it is aimed at everyone with a wallet, a pulse, and a desire to play D&D. So why shouldn't it provide products with a diversity of styles and tastes instead of just one flavor all the time?

For me, I have been through all the previous editions since I was 12 years old. The edition that was the most fun and most satisfying for me was 4th. It addressed a lot (but not all) of the issues I had with the system for years. And I had hopes that 5e would have taken it further. Instead, it took some huge steps back.

Don't get me wrong. I think 5e is a solid iteration based of an older design. But I've already played that game for many years. What really sucks is I can't get any official (or even 3rd party) support for the edition I liked best. And some days, like today, I just want to quit everything.

 

[Retreater]

I'll try not to speak for anyone else. My reasons for not being on the 5e bandwagon has little to do with who I think it's target audience might be. From where I sit, I imagine it is aimed at everyone with a wallet, a pulse, and a desire to play D&D. So why shouldn't it provide products with a diversity of styles and tastes instead of just one flavor all the time?

For me (and me alone), I have been through all the previous editions since I was 12 years old. The edition that was the most fun and most satisfying for me was 4th. It addressed a lot (but not all) of the issues I had with the system for years. And I had hopes that 5e would have taken it further. Instead, it took some huge steps back.

Don't get me wrong. I think 5e is a solid iteration based of an older design. But I've alreadyplayed that game for years. What really sucks for me is I can't get any official (or even 3rd party) support for the edition I liked best. And some days, like today, I just want to quit everything.

Not to get too off tangent, but maybe if you can isolate what you liked about 4e (which I was also a fan), maybe you can find other games doing something similar? There is some overlap in PF2, 13th Age, Soulbound, etc.
I hate to see someone give up.

 

[Scribe]

What prevents you from also doing that?

Nothing, but I dont find it...accurate to the tone of how I personally perceive the modern work Wizards is doing. Theres a dissonance, to me.

So...why assume the mere existence of these characteristics, which are mostly orthogonal or (in the case of peaceful stuff) simply won't work a decent chunk of the time, inherently means a no-adventure snooze fest?

It doesnt, these are indeed adventures (or settings in which adventures take place) but there is something wrong with the tone, or at least how I perceive the tone being communicated, and what I personally would rather see, to the point that it is limiting my purchases to 1 book (Fizbans) recently.

We can be engaging in a reconstruction, one that recognizes the value in the old ways but builds a new, wider perspective that includes more than just those ways.

Thats fine for those who want it, but I'm not that guy.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

Nothing, but I dont find it...accurate to the tone of how I personally perceive the modern work Wizards is doing. Theres a dissonance, to me.

Are you into DCC or OSE? Seems like they'd be up your alley.

 

[Mistwell]

Fair question. I considered myself a 5e "mega fan" for several years. I purchased nearly every official book up through Tasha's in Nov 2020 - with the exception of the MtG setting books. I was running multiple games a week, spending a lot of time on messageboards, social media, etc.
But then it hit me I was getting very disillusioned with the products. Adventures were dipping in quality. Some of them were barely run-able as presented (Dragon Heist).
And for someone who has run nearly every official adventure for 5e, I hope that something new will be announced that will get me excited for 5e again. So I'm a lapsed fan. I spend a lot of time on these boards discussing 5e, because it's honestly the only game in town. I (think) I know enough about it to contribute to discussions, and I hope I bring something to the boards (despite my grumpiness).

I certainly have a lot of good memories of you posting positive things about 5e. I was kinda surprised to hear you're not a fan these days.

 

[Scribe]

Are you into DCC or OSE? Seems like they'd be up your alley.

Yeah I recently saw DCC (from some thread here) and found it refreshing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm seeing a lot of people dismiss things as "too light and fluffy" just from first glance alone, and, having dismissed them, never follow up to find out they really aren't. Basically "Tell me that you've never actually read Witchlight without telling me you've never read Witchlight", I expect the same thing with Radiant Citadel...

You don't think WotC is counting on some people seeing the fanciful whimsy of either product and judging a book by its cover?

 

[dave2008]

I don't know if I'd say they're "for kids," but they're not for me.

• Candlekeep Mysteries - weak adventures with next to nothing to do in them.
• Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft - rebooted Ravenloft that misses the mark of the original campaign setting.
• Wild Beyond the Witchlight - displacer beast kittens and talk your way out of fluffy challenges.
• Fizban's Treasury of Dragons - boring book about the most boring creatures in the game.
• Strixhaven: A Curriculum of Chaos - Harry Potter by way of modern American college life
• Call of the Netherdeep - I'm not into Critical Role
• Journeys Through the Radiant Citadel - More cuddly kittens and adorableness
• Spelljammer: Adventures in Space - Was a joke in the 1980s. Still going to be a joke.
• Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen / Warriors of Krynn - Boring campaign setting about the most boring creatures in the game.

This sounds like a post by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about! If these one-liners are what you think about these books (3 of which are not even out yet) then it tells me you haven't really looked at them very deeply.