D&D (2024) D&D Background and Origin Feat Article

[Charlaquin]

I read crafter at getting a discount on crafting nonmagical items...

If it’s a discount on the cost of crafting nonmagical items, I’m much more ok with that. It’s easy enough to assume the character just has access to bstter sources for the raw materials they need than an amateur craftsperson would. If it’s on any nonmagical items they buy, which is the impression I got, that’s some nonsense IMO.

Otherwise, I'd assume they usually buy things of lesser quality and fix it themselves.

Then the ability should be rendered that way. Instead of just saying you get a 20% discount on all nonmagical items, it should say you can purchase lower-quality nonmagical items for 20% less than the cost of a standard example of the item (and spend some amount of time, maybe “during a long rest” or something) to restore them to the same equivalent quality of a full-priced example. Make it clear that the character is doing something in the world that’s resulting in this discount, instead of leaving it entirely abstract and meta.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Right, so literally it’s a dissociated mechanic. It doesn’t represent something your character does in the world, it’s something that because you as a player have, the world must be changed around your character to accommodate.

Recharge rolls on monster powers. Initiative where everyone daintily pauses whole the person before them finishes their turn before they start running. Dodging fireballs with a Dex save without actually moving. Armor Class. Hell, levels and hit points. The whole game is an abstraction.

If it's that important why Trader Joe gets a 20% discount, come up with a reason every time. I suspect it isn't, and the game will carry on like it does with the overwhelming majority of rules that people only accept because they played with them since they were kids. Having them gain advantage on haggling doesn't make the game more real, it just wastes the table's time.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If it’s a discount on the cost of crafting nonmagical items, I’m much more ok with that. It’s easy enough to assume the character just has access to bstter sources for the raw materials they need than an amateur craftsperson would. If it’s on any nonmagical items they buy, which is the impression I got, that’s some nonsense IMO.

Then the ability should be rendered that way. Instead of just saying you get a 20% discount on all nonmagical items, it should say you can purchase lower-quality nonmagical items for 20% less than the cost of a standard example of the item (and spend some amount of time, maybe “during a long rest” or something) to restore them to the same equivalent quality of a full-priced example.

I wait for the exact text in the 2024 PHB. Otherwise I do agree with you.

On the other hand, in 3.5 when people had a crafting skill and we used shopping as a downtime activity, I allowed them to get a discount on anything they buy.
So if they shop as downtime activity (which might be in the book) I have no problems with that discount.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Whoever designs this nonsense needs to actually play at a table with all this fiddly order of operations garbage. As written, you should be imposing disadvantage before they roll. Meaning you announce the target of Buttwhipper the Mighty, the guy with lucky will stare at you blankly, then as soon as it's a hit will whine to use it retroactively.

Either make it reroll after the fact and balance accordingly or ditch that aspect to speed up table flow.

Same goes for any "after the roll but before the outcome is known" crap.

Tavern Brawler is some serious weaksauce. Gimme the BG3 version lol.

Kind of tempted to remove Tough as an option. I feel almost everyone is going to take that at my table.

Luck is a metaphysical effect. The character doesn't choose to use it, the player does, representing being favoured by random chance.

James Bond doesn't choose to make the right cards be drawn at Baccarat, it just happens, because he is lucky.

 

[Charlaquin]

Initiative where everyone daintily pauses whole the person before them finishes their turn before they start running. Dodging fireballs with a Dex save without actually moving. Armor Class. Hell, levels and hit points. The whole game is an abstraction.

I’m not complaining that it’s an abstraction, I’m complaining that it’s dissociated. Everything you list here is abstracted, yes, but all of it is representative of something happening in the fictional world. The 20% discount isn’t that, it’s an entirely out of universe rule that says “the DM must play all shopkeepers as willing to give you 20% off all items at any time.”

If it's that important why Trader Joe gets a 20% discount, come up with a reason every time.

No. I don’t want to do that, and it shouldn’t be my job to.

I suspect it isn't, and the game will carry on like it does with the overwhelming majority of rules that people only accept because they played with them since they were kids. Having them gain advantage on haggling doesn't make the game more real, it just wastes the table's time.

“Making the game more real” is not what’s at issue here. I don’t want player-side abilities that step on the DM’s role of describing the environment. It should not, in my view, be within the player’s power to set the price of items. The player’s role is to describe what their character does, and the DM’s role is to describe how the world responds to those actions. If you want a discount, you must describe what your character is doing in the world to try to get one.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Luck is a metaphysical effect. The character doesn't choose to use it, the player does, representing being favoured by random chance.

James Bond doesn't choose to make the right cards be drawn at Baccarat, it just happens, because he is lucky.

The issue isn't the luck, it's that your decision to use it needs to happen after you are targeted, but before the roll is made and the outcome known. That's the problem. It interrupts the flow of play.

 

[Charlaquin]

I wait for the exact text in the 2024 PHB. Otherwise I do agree with you.

On the other hand, in 3.5 when people had a crafting skill and we used shopping as a downtime activity, I allowed them to get a discount on anything they buy.
So if they shop as downtime activity (which might be in the book) I have no problems with that discount.

Even if shopping is a downtime activity, I wouldn’t want discounts to be universal, or dictated by having a feat. You might through your actions earn a discount within a specific settlement, or when buying from a certain faction or something, but a blanket 20% off everything from everyone everywhere is no good in my book.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Even if shopping is a downtime activity, I wouldn’t want discounts to be universal, or dictated by having a feat. You might through your actions earn a discount within a specific settlement, or when buying from a certain faction or something, but a blanket 20% off everything from everyone everywhere is no good in my book.

The discount just assumes they craft a few things in their downtime.

But I still understand your concern.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Even if shopping is a downtime activity, I wouldn’t want discounts to be universal, or dictated by having a feat. You might through your actions earn a discount within a specific settlement, or when buying from a certain faction or something, but a blanket 20% off everything from everyone everywhere is no good in my book.

Charisma, persuasion, intimidation, deception etc are already universal.

 

[Charlaquin]

Charisma, persuasion, intimidation, deception etc are already universal.

Those are the names of an ability you roll to resolve uncertainty in the outcomes of actions, and skills that modify such rolls. What do you mean when you say they’re “universal?”