D&D basic set ??

[Squirrel Nutkin]

Actually, I think the fact that D&D Basic (not OD&D, that's completely different) is a completely different game from AD&D is a huge flaw.

At least D&D Basic (3.5e) introduces you to the D&D game that most people play.

If what you call 'D&D Basic' (and what I call OD&D ) wasn't a completely different game from AD&D, I probably wouldn't be here now. In fact I'm sure I'd have lost interest in RPGs and picked a different hobby instead. No offense intended to fans of AD&D but it was never my bag, baby, and I only played it whenever I couldn't persuade a group to try OD&D instead.

If you make up rules, do you base the rule on something in D&D3? Or do you make them up completely whole clothe?

The latter, as I'd have needed a time machine to know how 3E resolved those things.

Seriously, I did run another OD&D campaign after 3E was released and sometimes I would borrow a rule from the PH or the DMG or even HackMaster but most of the time my players and I weren't terribly worried about patching the system.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

If you make up rules, do you base the rule on something in D&D3? Or do you make them up completely whole clothe?

I make up a certain amount of detail as I go along. I've also been known to import rules and concepts from Runequest (usually RQ2, occasionally RQ3), Rolemaster, the Hero system, GURPS, and even in a couple of cases from White Wolf system games (basically when the PC's are fighting against vampires or werewolves.) For more recent adventures I've incorporated ideas and concepts from MMORG's.

I do not use any 3e, 3.5e, or D20 rules or materials, at all, ever.

 

[Quasqueton]

I'd have needed a time machine to know how 3E resolved those things.

Note that this whole discussion is referring to present day games. No time machine needed, unless you are stuck in the early 80s.

I make up a certain amount of detail as I go along. I've also been known to import rules and concepts from Runequest (usually RQ2, occasionally RQ3), Rolemaster, the Hero system, GURPS, and even in a couple of cases from White Wolf system games (basically when the PC's are fighting against vampires or werewolves.) For more recent adventures I've incorporated ideas and concepts from MMORG's.

I do not use any 3e, 3.5e, or D20 rules or materials, at all, ever.

Well, for instance, how do you handle it when the PCs want to disarm their opponent?

Quasqueton

 

[Akrasia]

If you play just a one-off, it may never come up. But if you are playing a campaign or other extended game, do the PCs ever need/want to try some actions not covered by the basic rules? Do the PCs never want to disarm an opponent? Grapple? Push them off a cliff? A cleric climb a wall? A magic-user hide? The fighter pull a stunt while on horseback? How do you handle jumping over a pit? The group sneaking past a guard post? Swimming? Etc.

All/most of these matters are covered in the D&D Rules Cylcopedia (or B/X + Gazeteers).

Indeed, you would be very surprised the extent to which 3.x 'borrowed' from the RC.

Consider: RC weapon mastery rules (3e combat feats); RC skills (3e skills); RC 'advanced classes' of paladin, avenger, druid, etc. (3e prestige classes); etc.

The main difference is that the RC rules are a lot simpler and faster to use.

Do these things never come up in your game? Do the Players kindly "play along" by not trying things not covered in the rules? Or do you have to make up rules for the actions on the spot? And how often?

RC optional rules aside, there is a general rule in B/X D&D of using 'ability score' checks to resolve certain actions (for a strength task, roll beneath your strength with a d20, modified by the DM).

That pretty much povides a very simple and consistent way to resolve all the problems not covered by the rules. And without 500+ pages of 'crunch' needed.

So, how do you handle "rule heavy" needs for a "rules light" system?

I don't even understand this question. B/X/RC D&D just is a 'rules light' system! It has no 'rules heavy' needs.

 

[Akrasia]

... How hard would it be for me to integrate C&C with the Rules Cyclopedia?

Very easy. You could use most of the RC stuff (monsters, rules for dominions, optional skills, etc.) 'as is' with C&C.

 

[Ourph]

Well, for instance, how do you handle it when the PCs want to disarm their opponent?

When a PC reduces his opponent to 0hp, he gets to decide what that means. If he wants it to mean "dead" then the opponent dies. If he wants it to mean "unconscious" then the opponent is unconscious (or has a certain chance of being unconscious rather than dead, DM's option), if he wants that to mean "disarmed" then the opponent is disarmed, if he wants that to mean he has pushed his opponent over a cliff, then over he goes. Hit points represent how tough an opponent is to "defeat", not necessarily how much physical damage an opponent can withstand (they were always meant to be an abstract concept). I think it's a mistake to incorporate "moves" that provide a work-around for reducing an opponent's hit points.

As for the other things you asked about some of them are already covered by the rules. For example, thieves may be the only ones who can move silently (i.e. creating NO noise), but anyone can attempt to move quietly. There are rules for when non-thieves can "hear noise" (1 in 6 for normal humans, 2 in 6 for demi-humans), so I would simply have whatever guards the PCs are attempting to sneak past make "hear noise" rolls with appropriate modifiers for the situation (if the PC party contains people in heavy armor or who are heavily encumbered, the chance that the guards hear them would go up slightly).

The same is true for a magic-user attempting to hide. Thieves get to hide in shadows. While an M-U cannot do that, he can easily conceal himself behind a barrel or in some bushes. If I, as DM, decide that there's a certain chance that he might be noticed anyway, I'd roll a surprise check for his opponents (with appropriate modifiers factoring in how well the M-U had chosen his hiding spot). If the opponent was "surprised" it would represent the M-U going unnoticed. If the opponent wasn't "surprised" it would represent him spotting the M-U. IMO this isn't necessarily a "house rule" or "rules patch" because it's obvious what surprise is intended to represent within the rules and that this falls within that category.

As with any game (including 3e) it does no good to have a rule to cover a situation if the people reading/playing the rules don't take the time to learn and understand them.

 

[Krieg]

..3

 

[Krieg]

..2

 

[Krieg]

..1

 

[Krieg]

....He should be along any second now.