D&D 5E D&D Beyond: Monsters of the Multiverse Will Not Replace Existing Monsters

D&D Beyond has said that Monsters of the Multiverse will not replace existing monsters already purchased by users.

While they have indicated that existing content will not be overwritten, they were unable to share any details on how the new monster stat blocks will be implemented - suggestions might include duplicate entries, or some kind of toggle. This also includes racial traits, which won't replace old material -- the contents of the book will be treated as new content.

While DDB is taking it's lead from WotC on what to do, apparently WotC asked them to take charge of communicating this all to users.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I think the concern is that these types of abilities are attached to statblocks of NPCs that are supposed to be actual "wizards" or "clerics" or whatever. That is to say, they're close to certain PC classes in concept, so when their NPC abilities deviate significantly from the PC abilities of similar classes, it raises questions.

Honestly, I would think 90+% of players would either not notice at all, or just shrug and just assume that's just the way it is. After all, PCs have abilities and other features NPCs don't get. NPC "barbarians" only get d8 hit dice - how is it "fair" the PC version gets a d12?

And coming from someone who has played MMORGs, not being able to counterspell/interrupt some abilities, some that even parallel PC abilities, is par for the course...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Unless someone else already addressed this and I just missed it, for DDB and FG and probably Roll20 too, owning content from the old books and buying content from the new book will give you access to both versions. If you own just the old ones or just the new one, you only get access to that version. But for all the people who do not own content from the two old books, will the sale of content from them be discontinued when the new book releases in May? Since the new book replaces the two old ones for official rules, will the ability to buy the old ones disappear too? And I would assume that the physical versions of the old books will go out of print as well? Has anyone seen anything official on this?

Specifically the two books that are reprints? I'd imagine that future printings of those two books will simply match the gift set update to them.

It's only Monster of The Multiverse that isn't replacing anything. The other two are just like the PHB, which gets updated with errata with new printings that come after said errata.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Throwing an @SkidAce as well

Again, this has happened before with nary an eyeblink. Abilities that PCs can't use?

Hobgoblin Devastators from Volo's are Evocation wizards. Show me an evocation wizard that can use "Arcane Advantage" to deal and extra 2d6 sneak attack damage with a spell.

Claw of Luthic is a cleric... who gets to make four attacks when at half health, no cleric I know can do more than two attacks, with a special ability. Hand of Yurtrus has the "Touch of the White Hand" a melee WEAPON attack that does 2d8 NECROTIC damage. It isn't even a spell according to the statblock.



Casting unconterable "spells" as a PC casting class?

Yuan-ti Nightmare Speaker is a warlock who gets Invoke Nightmare, which isn't a spell but acts a lot like Phantasmal Killer. They also get Death Fangs, allowing them to smite at 3d10 twice per day.

Mind whisperer is also a Warlock with Smite, and by the way, these aren't the Eldritch Smites that warlocks got in Xanathar's, because they don't take spell slots, they are just twice per day, in addition to their spells.

Pit Master gets the smite and a Sleep spell based on a Con save, no HP limit. And the Smite for 3d10

So, again, how are these new abilities somehow different? We've had enemy NPC wizards, clerics, and Warlocks using abilities that PCs cannot access for years. Using magic that isn't spells, and would therefore be immune to counterspell. This is nothing NEW they are just expanding it.

They are expanding it past the point at which some are comfortable with it. The problem some see is a matter of scope, not kind. You can't tell people they should feel differently. Its not a matter of fact, but of feel.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Specifically the two books that are reprints? I'd imagine that future printings of those two books will simply match the gift set update to them.

It's only Monster of The Multiverse that isn't replacing anything. The other two are just like the PHB, which gets updated with errata with new printings that come after said errata.

I am not talking about the other two books in the gift set. Monsters is replacing Volo's and Mordenkainen's, at least with all the monster and race updates. Despite all the fluff in them, there is a good chance they will be discontinued to prevent newer players from getting confused and buying the wrong books after Monsters is released solo in May.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Are they? Again, the upcoming books have optional variants, not replacements. Adding new stuff that can be used alongside existing material is not a change.

So, open the errata document, and triple it in size, and have it change how parts of the system function.

The earliest that will happen is a time when 5e isn't selling well. Even then, as long as they are making lots of money from the IP, they've little reason to mess with the possibility of a split fanbase like we saw with previous editions.

This sort of thing is personal opinion. You seem to think that these changes aren't enough to be considered any sort of edition change, others disagree. Neither side is going to convince the other to feel differently.

And I do think this will ultimately lead to a split fan base, just not enough of one for WotC to care. And they are well within their rights not to do so.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I am not talking about the other two books in the gift set. Monsters is replacing Volo's and Mordenkainen's, at least with all the monster and race updates. Despite all the fluff in them, there is a good chance they will be discontinued to prevent newer players from getting confused and buying the wrong books after Monsters is released solo in May.

It's explicitly not replacing those books.

you know they issued errata for those books to fix the problematic language, right? Why bother if you're replacing them in less than 6 months from when the errata was put out?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

It's explicitly not replacing those books.

you know they issued errata for those books to fix the problematic language, right? Why bother if you're replacing them in less than 6 months from when the errata was put out?

Are they going to issue errata for them to make all the stat blocks are race changes match up too? Likely not or people would not buy the new book, and that sounds like a replacement to me. But hey, if in a year or two, I can get someone to give me $200 or $300 for my 1st printing of Volo's, I will laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Are they going to issue errata for them to make all the stat blocks are race changes match up too? Likely not or people would not buy the new book, and that sounds like a replacement to me. But hey, if in a year or two, I can get someone to give me $200 or $300 for my 1st printing of Volo's, I will laugh all the way to the bank.

An optional variant isn't a replacement. I really don't get why this is so hard to accept.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

An optional variant isn't a replacement. I really don't get why this is so hard to accept.

But we won't know absolutely until the solo release in May whether WotC intends for Volo's/Mord's and Monsters to co-exist or if Monsters will be the only one that stays is print, or is the only legal version for AL play, etc. There is no official word one way or the other on it that I have seen and that is what I was asking. But whatever is done, I see Monsters as the new official book and Volo's/Mord's become the optional variants.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I mean, cool. I'm just explaining the issue as I understand it. I personally have almost no skin in this particular game.

That's fair, but I'm trying to explain that the issue people seem to be coalescing around doesn't make sense, if the issue is "this is a new thing that has never happened before."

Because it has happened. We have examples, and none of these were ever considered a problem. And when people are complaining about something that doesn't seem to have ever been a problem before... you have to start wondering why.

I'm not interested in convincing you in particular, I'm just trying to point out that "how will we handle it" is "just like we've been handling it since the first printings of the MM and Volos"

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They are expanding it past the point at which some are comfortable with it. The problem some see is a matter of scope, not kind. You can't tell people they should feel differently. Its not a matter of fact, but of feel.

But that isn't what people are saying. People aren't saying "they are making these abilities too common".

To just grab the last set of quotes, SkidAce "Quoted for Truth" the following post

"I think the concern is that these types of abilities are attached to statblocks of NPCs that are supposed to be actual "wizards" or "clerics" or whatever. That is to say, they're close to certain PC classes in concept, so when their NPC abilities deviate significantly from the PC abilities of similar classes, it raises questions."

Nothing about that indicates that the issue is that this has expanded beyond a certain point, but that the kind of issue is unique and the problem.

I'm not telling anyone how to feel about the change, but since the question keeps coming up about "how are we supposed to handle these NPC characters having non-spell spells that are similar to PC class spells"... well, exactly like you've been doing. This is not a new "kind" like you said. It is an expansion of an existing paradigm.

If people were asking "how do we handle this sort of thing being more common" then we'd be having an very different conversation.

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But we won't know absolutely until the solo release in May whether WotC intends for Volo's/Mord's and Monsters to co-exist or if Monsters will be the only one that stays is print, or is the only legal version for AL play, etc. There is no official word one way or the other on it that I have seen and that is what I was asking. But whatever is done, I see Monsters as the new official book and Volo's/Mord's become the optional variants.

Seems very likely that Volos and Mordenkainen's will stay in print.

The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide is still in print after all, and I don't know if anything in that is still considered for AL since they've reprinted just about everything in it.

Now for AL legal PCs, they've always stated that the most recent version of a race is the AL legal one, so those are getting changed for AL specifically I imagine, but in terms of Monsters, you run the monsters that are in the adventure, I don't think that is really going to change. I mean, don't they always include all the statblocks needed in the adventure? (I haven't run an adventure book, so I don't know.)