howandwhy99
Adventurer
I'm into leadership building as an option in the game. If running fantasy organizations gets us there, I'm for it.
D&D Blog - Kings and Castles
- Thread starter pauljathome
- Start date
JonWake
First Post
Has anyone checked out Adventurer Conqueror King? It's pretty much all about this. I just downloaded the PDF off of RPGNOW, and I like that it has rules for all kinds of domains at 10th level.
Attracting followers at a high level just makes sense, and it's super easy to ignore if you don't want it there. When you're 10th level, you're among the best *whatever* you do in the Kingdom. It's like people wanting to learn boxing from Muhammed Ali, or trying to become a lab assistant for Richard Feynman.
I'd also love to see an option for Epic Stupid Level play, some way to transcend from a Ruler to a Legend, maybe scraping into Godhood. Make the tiers qualitatively different, rather than just a bigger math problem.
Attracting followers at a high level just makes sense, and it's super easy to ignore if you don't want it there. When you're 10th level, you're among the best *whatever* you do in the Kingdom. It's like people wanting to learn boxing from Muhammed Ali, or trying to become a lab assistant for Richard Feynman.
I'd also love to see an option for Epic Stupid Level play, some way to transcend from a Ruler to a Legend, maybe scraping into Godhood. Make the tiers qualitatively different, rather than just a bigger math problem.
Now that i think about it, I could see it this having many effects on high level play.
PCs could customize their domains and followers to suit their growing and changing needs. Gone is the days of borrowing laboratories for achemy and doing a quest/favor to rent a smithy, you own the places and can get a regular supply of potions, minor scrolls, and explosions as long as you you keep the gold flowing.
About to head into the Feywild to deal with angry fire fey when a portal randomly pops up in your newly built castle? Send your men to slay one of the young red dragons pestering the dwarves for armor while you search for cold iron. Oh and you have to pay your guys extra so you go on a quest just for payroll and funerals. Then you have to clear the area of enemies before you leave because you don't want orcs to burn down that castle you built while you and your buddies are messing around with Eladrin.
PCs could customize their domains and followers to suit their growing and changing needs. Gone is the days of borrowing laboratories for achemy and doing a quest/favor to rent a smithy, you own the places and can get a regular supply of potions, minor scrolls, and explosions as long as you you keep the gold flowing.
About to head into the Feywild to deal with angry fire fey when a portal randomly pops up in your newly built castle? Send your men to slay one of the young red dragons pestering the dwarves for armor while you search for cold iron. Oh and you have to pay your guys extra so you go on a quest just for payroll and funerals. Then you have to clear the area of enemies before you leave because you don't want orcs to burn down that castle you built while you and your buddies are messing around with Eladrin.
Evilhalfling
Adventurer
I hope that 5e does have rules for strongholds. Its just exactly the sort of thing that fits the 'optional' pieces approach.
I have used BECMI rules to run a campaign in Galantri.
I used rules from a single article in DRAGON 293 to run a game in 3.0
and play tested the Pathfinder Kingmaker rules for my group, but never ran the actual game. (I also did a conversion to 4e)
- discarded magical medieval society rules, and stronghold builders, and the 2nd e Castles book.
The dragon article was a pretty good abstraction, but the kingmaker stuff was more fun to play. BEMCI had the best integration with a mass combat system, but the rules were incomplete without a supplement - the CX2 which had a sample barony.
I have used BECMI rules to run a campaign in Galantri.
I used rules from a single article in DRAGON 293 to run a game in 3.0
and play tested the Pathfinder Kingmaker rules for my group, but never ran the actual game. (I also did a conversion to 4e)
- discarded magical medieval society rules, and stronghold builders, and the 2nd e Castles book.
The dragon article was a pretty good abstraction, but the kingmaker stuff was more fun to play. BEMCI had the best integration with a mass combat system, but the rules were incomplete without a supplement - the CX2 which had a sample barony.
Crazy Jerome
First Post
I also think that rules good enough to be included at all are good enough to let you get into stronghold management issues from level 1, if that is your preference. Sure, you aren't the baron, but you might be an officer of the watch or an apprentice wizard.
After all, what about the people that like this sort of thing, but prefer low-levels? And why should it be attached to a level at all, if it well done and fun?
After all, what about the people that like this sort of thing, but prefer low-levels? And why should it be attached to a level at all, if it well done and fun?
JonWake
First Post
In ACKs you can try to start a domain at any level, it's just impractical without the wealth adventuring brings. They can still hire followers and mercenaries, but when you reach 9th level they just show up without you trying. It's a good compromise.
I think rules for gaining followers (anything from a single loyal lackey, up to an entire empire) and obtaining bases of operation (anything from a ramshackle lean-to all the way to a castle in the sky and beyond) are a great idea.
I don't think either should ever be a default class feature.
If my fighter in my campaign is off fighting for the greater glory of his king and kingdom, being rewarded with the rights and responsibilities of nobility may make perfect sense.
If my fighter in my campaign is off fighting because he lost his friends and family and nothing helps his grief but the oblivion he finds in pitched combat, why the heck would anyone want to put him in charge of anything, and why would he want the responsibility?
Making it an optional class feature resolves that issue, but then what does the character get who doesn't take it? What can you possibly give them that's an adequate substitute?
---
Such rules should be entirely separated from concerns of class and level.
Just as the fighter who doesn't want a keep and followers shouldn't have them thrust upon him, the wizard who wants to become the first Empress of the Empire of Magic should be able to pursue that option without having to take a dip into some non-wizard class to get it.
If someone wants to be the adventurer king, or a warrior princess, I want the option of being able to give them the tools for it without insisting that they wait until higher levels to play that concept.
It's also quite jarring to immersion to tie access to such things to specific levels. If a character rescues the kidnapped princess before she can be sacrificed, and returns her safe and sound to the king of the realm, the king should be able to offer him a noble title (and possibly his daughter's hand in marriage) right then and there, instead of going "Uh, you'll get your reward once you go out and kill some more goblins or something".
Is it tricky to make it work across all levels? Absolutely. I still think it's worth aiming for.
I don't think either should ever be a default class feature.
If my fighter in my campaign is off fighting for the greater glory of his king and kingdom, being rewarded with the rights and responsibilities of nobility may make perfect sense.
If my fighter in my campaign is off fighting because he lost his friends and family and nothing helps his grief but the oblivion he finds in pitched combat, why the heck would anyone want to put him in charge of anything, and why would he want the responsibility?
Making it an optional class feature resolves that issue, but then what does the character get who doesn't take it? What can you possibly give them that's an adequate substitute?
---
Such rules should be entirely separated from concerns of class and level.
Just as the fighter who doesn't want a keep and followers shouldn't have them thrust upon him, the wizard who wants to become the first Empress of the Empire of Magic should be able to pursue that option without having to take a dip into some non-wizard class to get it.
If someone wants to be the adventurer king, or a warrior princess, I want the option of being able to give them the tools for it without insisting that they wait until higher levels to play that concept.
It's also quite jarring to immersion to tie access to such things to specific levels. If a character rescues the kidnapped princess before she can be sacrificed, and returns her safe and sound to the king of the realm, the king should be able to offer him a noble title (and possibly his daughter's hand in marriage) right then and there, instead of going "Uh, you'll get your reward once you go out and kill some more goblins or something".
Is it tricky to make it work across all levels? Absolutely. I still think it's worth aiming for.
soulcatcher78
First Post
Another vote for a Companion style rules module. The rules were detailed enough to get you going without bogging you down with additional "simulation" issues.
The Human Target
Adventurer
Optional sounds great.
I don't want every Fighter to get a castle at 12th level though.
Thats stuff better left as an add on module.
I don't want every Fighter to get a castle at 12th level though.
Thats stuff better left as an add on module.
Alan Shutko
Explorer
The way the Companion set rules worked, you didn't get it automatically. The stronghold had to be "purchased, built (if there is land available), or seized." But if you decided to do that, there were rules for what happened as a result. You could buy or take over a building before this, but at name level you had enough renown that you would attract followers, become eligible for certain types of relations with local government, etc. It also gave rules for different classes that helped differentiate the ways you'd settle down. (Remember, BECMI was a strong-archetype game, so the class you chose had a strong influence on the career path you'd have.)
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