D&D 5E D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs

[Thomas Shey]

Well, never underestimate module writers having the same disorder we've been talking about; if they're in the habit of doing it that way, whether the rules suggest it now or not might not change anything.

As we've noted, there's often a lag between how rules are written and how people actually write to what the intended play is, and sometimes that lag can be long.

 

[Hussar]

Well, never underestimate module writers having the same disorder we've been talking about; if they're in the habit of doing it that way, whether the rules suggest it now or not might not change anything.

As we've noted, there's often a lag between how rules are written and how people actually write to what the intended play is, and sometimes that lag can be long.

True but a number of modules in dnd have been written in whole or in part by the designers of the game. Not really a good look in that case.

But again it does speak pretty strongly to the idea that failed roles are catastrophic when even the game designers include it in modules.

 

[Don Durito]

WOTC modules are too overwritten to be easily referenced in play.

So there's a certain irony there. People may not follow the rules as written in the modules because the modules are designed to be read and not used as effective tools in play.

The fact that people still buy and run them anyway probably shows that most DMs that run the modules don't feel they really need the specific guidance in the books about how to adjudicate things.

 

[hawkeyefan]

My last session of 5E D&D was mostly good, but there did come a point where the the PCs were in a situation that basically relied on skill checks, and the entire game ground to a halt.

The GM is overall a good GM. We’ve been rotating GMs because I’ve been the persistent GM for everything but the occasional short game, so I asked my group ifI could get to play more. So it’s been this GM’s turn for the last four sessions. He’s maybe a bit rusty, but overall solid.

But last week, after some combat with some sahaughin (or however the hell you spell that) our PCs were pursuing some Dagon worshippers who had kidnapped some townfolk, including one of our friends. We entered their underground lair after beating the sahag...sauhag...fish people, the stakes were high, we had momentum....and then the game ground to a halt.

The lair was kind of a maze. We’re playing over Discord, theater of the mind, so no maps or visuals. He seemed to have a loose idea of using skills for us to navigate the maze.

And our dice went cold. We failed the first few checks, and I could tell he then struggled with how to proceed. He eventually just skipped ahead and put us in a weaker position upon arrival, basically ruling that our failed checks meant we arrived later and the bad guys had more time to prepare. And that was fine, in my opinion.

We played out the rest of the session (another combat with a cool environmental danger) and it all went well. After, he apologized for the part in the maze. And while I think he ultimately handled it fine....I respect when a GM realizes something’s not quite working and adapts...I knew he was hoping for something more engaging.

And although I think there are several factors at play....his rustiness, possible lack of preparation, mazes being problematic in any game, our cold dice....I think a big part of it is simply the lack of structured rules and processes for this kind of stuff.

Now, I know many GMs here could rip this example apart. They could offer amazing advice on how to structure the scene and make it compelling and all that. They have years, no...decades of experience.

I just think it’d be better if the books offered that advice and people were able to learn this stuff without the years and years of trial and error that so many others had to spend.

 

[Hussar]

WOTC modules are too overwritten to be easily referenced in play.

So there's a certain irony there. People may not follow the rules as written in the modules because the modules are designed to be read and not used as effective tools in play.

The fact that people still buy and run them anyway probably shows that most DMs that run the modules don't feel they really need the specific guidance in the books about how to adjudicate things.

I’m sorry. I’m not following. How can something be over written while at the same time not provide guidance?

And as someone who uses a lot of modules I disagree that they are not effective tools in play.

Additionally there are modules out there that serve a pedagogical purpose. That module that comes with the new Basic set - Icespear Peaks?- would be an excellent source to look at for what the designers feel players need to run a game.

Or perhaps Phandellin (sp). Are there infiltration scenarios there? I played the module but I honestly don’t remember that much other than mostly straight up dungeon crawls.

 

[Hussar]

Just took a minute to read through the first dungeon in Phandelver. That is really well written and takes great care to allow ample opportunity for the party to be sneaky and stealthy and lots of examples of how failure isn’t catastrophic. If a fight breaks out there are plausible reasons why the fights don’t chain together.

Makes sense for 1st level characters who would be almost certainly wiped out if the baddies attacked en mass.

Very well done. No wonder this module rates so high.

However Cragmaw castle is a different story. If the party approaches the gates and fails at stealth, the alarm goes up. If the go to the other door, fail their lock picking attempt and break open the door, the alarm goes up.

There is no advice given for any other approaches.

So again, single failed checks= the alarm goes up and infiltration is off the table.

And note, no advice is given as to why encounters are spaced the way they are.

 

[Don Durito]

I’m sorry. I’m not following. How can something be over written while at the same time not provide guidance?

Damned if I know. I didn't say anything about not providing guidance.

The point was that if there's guidance buried in a paragraph somewhere about what to do if the PCs fail a skill roll it's a bit of a hassle to actually crack open the book and read it at the table until you find it. (And it's not the sort of thing you're likely to remember from a read through). I suspect most GMs just adjudicate as they see fit.

 

[Hussar]

Damned if I know. I didn't say anything about not providing guidance.

Then, I’m sorry. I really have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[Don Durito]

Then, I’m sorry. I really have no idea what you are trying to say.

See the edit

 

[hawkeyefan]

The 5E books are horrible for reference during play. Horrible.

Lost Mines of Phandelver is better than those that followed because it is shorter and is like 40 pages and a softcover.

Those big books are tough. Especially when like a rules realted question comes up....hold on everybody while I reference two separate 300 page hardbacks. Ugh.