D&D deserves a better XP system

[ThoughtBubble]

I suppose what I'm trying to highlight is that the three categories that Angcuru mentioned: combat, magic and skills would be better seperated in some way rather than heaped together when characters go up levels.

I would be interested in others peoples views of this apparent anomaly.

It's an aspect of the fact that the system was devised around killing stuff. The only real anomaly comes when a person tries to take it out of that area. It's a testament to the system that it holds up under such abuse.

XP for fighting is quantifed in a more concrete manner than xp for RPing or planning or finding creative solutions because fighting is more rigidly defined than RPing or planning or finding creative solutions.

And, for what I want Dungeons and Dragons to do, I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't want it telling me about how to play my character. Anyone remember this quote? "Barbarians don't trust that which they don't understand, and that includes wizardry, which they call 'book magic.'"

In a game where becoming a mastercrafter is the goal in and of itself, when combat is rare, the D&D levelling system will need some help. In a game about political intrigue and subtle plotting, when combat isn't the focus, the D&D levelling system will need some work. In a game about waltzing into dungeons, dodging traps, killing creatures, and collecting loot, the D&D levelling system works just fine.

 

[Spatula]

The reason is this. As a DM I find that I baulk at the idea of giving the PC's full experience for making a single move silently check and bypassing the minotaur, since so much has depended upon the roll of a single die.

Two dice, actually, since the move silently roll would have been opposed by the minotaur's listen check.

Could be even more dice, too, since you can't move too far while moving silently unless you take large penalties, so the PC in question might have spent several tense rounds trying to sneak past the minotaur. What happens when one of those checks is blown? The minotaur hears something, starts heading towards the PC to investigate. Can the PC remain hidden, then continue after the monster loses interest? Or perhaps create a diversion, drawing the creature's attention in a different direction?

I think DMs can make skill resolutions drawn out and exciting if they so choose.

 

[S'mon]

This discussion of the D&D xp system has raise some interesting issues about the nature of the game and how people percieve it.

I pose this question:

Which sentence best describes D&D.

(A) a tabletop combat game with role-playing elements.

(B) a combat oriented role-playing game.

(C) a role-playing game which allows players to develop and advance their characters through a variety of means, one of them being armed conflict.

I choose (B) - D&D is heavily combat-oriented, but is definitely an RPG, even though 3.5 seems to be taking it towards (A). The majority of RPGs are combat-oriented, but few modern ones focus on combat to D&D's extent. A typical modern RPG uses a skill system where combat skills are integrated with other skills, but combat is still detailed more than other skills use. Games where combat is no more detailed than other skills use exist but are rare.

 

[diaglo]

Which sentence best describes D&D.

(A) a tabletop combat game with role-playing elements.

(B) a combat oriented role-playing game.

(C) a role-playing game which allows players to develop and advance their characters through a variety of means, one of them being armed conflict.

D) all of the above and more.



you can play with groups of gamers/friends who like different things. many favor one thing over the other, but none of us can completely exclude elements of the opposite style.

at times the game may be fast paced combat oriented action. at others it may be slower political intrigue. at others puzzle solving traps. economics, religion, war, mystery, aliens, dinosaurs, etc...

whatever you do to make the game fun for all those involved. the key is to getting involved and staying focused on your game. not just the DM/GM/referee, but the other players as well. engage everyone at the table.

 

[Nightfall]

i side with Werner and the rest. If you feel just because we don't agree with you Ae, we're being snide, well that's too bad. It's not intentional but that's how it is.

I will agree with Angcuru that if you don't like the current system try something else. But I feel your arguement is seriously flawed in that you only base it on ONE experience with ONE dm. I know several that I've played with that we only faced traps, or had a lot of learning time where we cast spells a lot. And we STILL used the DMG XP awarding system. We leveled, we had fun. It seems to me you just feel your other actions weren't being considered. If so, that to me seems to be both sour grapes on your part AND the fault of the DM. Not anything wrong with the game's XP system. The Xp SYSTEM are just the MECHANICS. They can't make you have more XP or get more IF the DM is unwilling or unable to award you it. Period.

 

[Plane Sailing]

i side with Werner and the rest. If you feel just because we don't agree with you Ae, we're being snide, well that's too bad. It's not intentional but that's how it is.

It is perfectly possible for people to disagree constructively without being snide. I'm not thinking of anyone in particular when I say that quite a lot of early responses to Aethelstan were definitely on the unfriendly and snide side. As an outside observer that is very clear to me, so it is not just a matter of how he feels about it.

It doesn't do anyone any favours when people post in that kind of manner, and is more likely to make people defensive (or even agressive) in their response. C'mon guys, we're better than that!

Cheers

 

[Aethelstan]

Nightfall,
I think you're conflating someone else's post with mine. You respond to several points I myself did not make. More to the point, why are you yelling at me with bold and caps? This mode of discourse is usually reserved for ranting conspiracy theorists.

To all posters,
I do not think posters were being "snide" because they disagreed with my views. I enjoy a good debate. However, several replies bordered on rude. My personal favorite: "don't blame us or Gygax for your lack of imagination." This kind of comment is not only wildly off the mark but was clearly intended as a put down. One can make a good argument without resorting to zingers.

Frankly, my experience posting on these boards (I've "lurked" for years) has been rather disappointing. Yes, my opening post was slightly ranty but that was only intended to inspire debate. I expected disagreement but I was not prepared for the thinly veiled hostility and intentional condescension of many of the replies. I was not condemning anyone's moral or political beliefs, I was simply expressing my opinions about a game. If you don't like my ideas, by all means have at them. But at least afford me the respect, and presumption of intelligence, that you yourself would expect from others.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

To all posters,
I do not think posters were being "snide" because they disagreed with my views. I enjoy a good debate. However, several replies bordered on rude. My personal favorite: "don't blame us or Gygax for your lack of imagination." This kind of comment is not only wildly off the mark but was clearly intended as a put down. One can make a good argument without resorting to zingers.

Frankly, my experience posting on these boards (I've "lurked" for years) has been rather disappointing. Yes, my opening post was slightly ranty but that was only intended to inspire debate. I expected disagreement but I was not prepared for the thinly veiled hostility and intentional condescension of many of the replies. I was not condemning anyone's moral or political beliefs, I was simply expressing my opinions about a game. If you don't like my ideas, by all means have at them. But at least afford me the respect, and presumption of intelligence, that you yourself would expect from others.

All right, if I can ask something? Did the suggestion of a 0xp game get ignored or lost in the shuffle? Did the menthod I used for xp arbitration just seem to bland to be noticed? Because I would have loved to have had a good conversation with you about it but I didn't get a response.

 

[Nightfall]

Nightfall,
I think you're conflating someone else's post with mine. You respond to several points I myself did not make. More to the point, why are you yelling at me with bold and caps? This mode of discourse is usually reserved for ranting conspiracy theorists.

Firstly I cap a lot of my words, not intentional yelling. Secondly I NEVER bold anything.

*bold*

Thirdly I'm a nutty sage. Period.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Yes, my opening post was slightly ranty but that was only intended to inspire debate.

So you admit to trolling.

I expected disagreement but I was not prepared for the thinly veiled hostility and intentional condescension of many of the replies.

That's because trolls aren't popular around here.

Geoff.