D&D DMing is not playing chess against the players!!

[Herschel]

I'll get right on that.

Hey I never got a copy of a few modules that I've been wanting maybe I can.........oh. They got pulled didn't they?

Yup. Nothing beats voting with your wallet in a land of free commerce and consumer choice.

It's hard to vote after the polls have closed.

I wanted to pick up a copy of the first Badlands album, but it appears to be out-of-print.

 

[Scribble]

Buying something isn't the only way to vote with your wallet... Not buying something also sends a message.

 

[Zaran]

I think we are talking about something that doesn't exist and we are talking about how something expanding the game into other realms of gameplay for 4e would be totally awesome. We can't vote with our wallets when the product isn't there.

 

[billd91]

Buying something isn't the only way to vote with your wallet... Not buying something also sends a message.

A very diffuse message if a message at all. When my grandmother was alive, she wasn't buying D&D books. Did that send a message? No it really didn't. And that's the trouble with the "message" of not buying something. There has to be some reason for the publisher to think that the customer might have been a likely purchaser in the first place before their lack of purchase can send a message.

But even if it did constitute a message, what message does it send? My credit card is maxed out? I don't like the product? I've never heard of the product? I am too busy working to get out to the game store?

No, not buying something hardly sends an effective message... without the backing of more information, that is - posts on boards the publisher views or direct contact.

 

[ExploderWizard]

No, not buying something hardly sends an effective message... without the backing of more information, that is - posts on boards the publisher views or direct contact.

Yes. Think of it like this. Your purchase (or decision NOT to purchase) is a great war deterring superweapon.....................which is useless if you don't tell anyone about it.

 

[Ariosto]

Yeah, the tactics of boycott have been explored a fair bit over the past few centuries, and publicity is pretty important. It's not like being a nation-state with a navy to set up a very visible blockade, or a diplomat to give speeches in United Nations meetings. You need other means to make clear what is going on and how to win back your patronage.

 

[Scribble]

A very diffuse message if a message at all. When my grandmother was alive, she wasn't buying D&D books. Did that send a message? No it really didn't.

Sure it did. It says someone who would fit the profile of whatever the heck profile your grand mom fits is not interested in purchasing D&D products.

Go figure.

And that's the trouble with the "message" of not buying something. There has to be some reason for the publisher to think that the customer might have been a likely purchaser in the first place before their lack of purchase can send a message.

But even if it did constitute a message, what message does it send? My credit card is maxed out? I don't like the product? I've never heard of the product? I am too busy working to get out to the game store?

Based on how my own company works (and I doubt we're that much different then most) we're not looking at a timeline so fine that things like the current state of your wallet, or your workload are going to effect it.

If there is a sudden drop in sales of a product pitched in your target market you know there's a problem.

If there are enough of you it sends the message this product was not purchased by a lot of people.

No, not buying something hardly sends an effective message... without the backing of more information, that is - posts on boards the publisher views or direct contact.

If you feel the need to spend your time ranting about how you dislike something go for it... Not sure I ever said stop doing so.

My comments earlier were to not bother others who are happy with the product with your anger, as it's not going to "convert" them, just annoy them.

But I DO think you vastly overestimate the power your bitching about stuff really has...

When we design products (in my company) we do so based on what people are looking for, not what they dislike.

You seriously think it's a better method to design the product by what it ISN'T then what it IS?

"Pepsi- At least we're not RC Cola!"

I think it's more effective to spend your time talking about what you like (even if it's not currently being marketed) that way people know exactly what you want.

If you say - I hates me some RC Cola... that might mean a lot of stuff... Maybe you don't like cola... maybe you don't like brown colored drinks... Maybe the can just pissed you off- even if you tell me exactly what you hate about RC Cola, there's still a bazillion different cola combinations I have no idea if you want or don't want.

If you say, I like Cola Drinks that have a less sugary finish, and come in a can with a nice shade of aqua marine... we know what to put together for you. A Cola with a less sugary finish and an aqua marine can.

People also relate more with people who are happy. I'd be willing to bet a lot of designers if they're reading the threads spend more time mining for ideas in happy posts, then they do in the I HATES ME THIS BOOK!!! posts.

(There's an article in Wired this month that mentions this... We're kind of hardwired to outcast crabby people.)

 

[billd91]

But I DO think you vastly overestimate the power your bitching about stuff really has...

Oh, I don't think I am. I know quite well that I'm a lone voice and companies like WotC will treat me as one. But what I won't do is overestimate what my lack of patronage sends as a message.

The vast majority of people aren't customers for any particular game product. So what's the difference between my not buying it and a random Joe not buying it? So little as to be negligible. The publisher can't infer a single thing from my lack of purchase. They get no useful information about it whatsoever without elaboration.

It's even hard to get useful information about why a lot of people didn't buy a product. Was it because the product was poorly marketed? Did the economy go south causing a lot of people to hold off on luxury purchases? Did it a fill a need nobody had? Did it have high competition from another product? Again, elaboration is necessary to glean useful information.

 

[Umbran]

But I DO think you vastly overestimate the power your bitching about stuff really has...

When we design products (in my company) we do so based on what people are looking for, not what they dislike.

Yes. Bear in mind that producers of just about anything know they will get some complaints. Pleasing everybody is not a practical possibility, so some vocal dissatisfaction is generally expected, part of the overall plan of releasing new stuff. If the level of complaint is dramatically higher than expected, a company might look into what they did wrong.

But, RPGs have very long release cycles - source books look to be on the order of half a year (?), and whole editions and games are multiple-year cycles. So, if you have a problem with the basic root of the system, and you gripe now, you may get to see that reflected in new product... years from now.

 

[Aegeri]

Oh, I don't think I am. I know quite well that I'm a lone voice and companies like WotC will treat me as one. But what I won't do is overestimate what my lack of patronage sends as a message.

What perplexes me is why some people feel the need to mention this ad nauseam all the time to people who don't care: EG people who are buying what WotC is releasing. I'm not wizards, I don't care if someone wants to repeatedly and in every thread complain about the exact same things (as happens on the 4E General Board on Wizards constantly).

Email Wizards or something, or just make a single post on the forum or something. Relentlessly complaining about the same things over and over eventually just produces people who backlash against your views when they get sick of it.