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D&D doesn't need bards
- Thread starter akr71
- Start date
vincegetorix
Jewel of the North
Bard should have the spellcasting format of Warlock, replacing Invocation per Songs that can add effect to an aura around the bard and replacing Boons (at 1st level) with Performer's Focus: Blade (prof with martial, medium armor and Accro), Minstrel (Instrument as focus, prof in social skills) or Loremaster (tomes as focus, prof with knowledge skills and languages).
Jd Smith1
Hero
I agree: drop the spellcasting, and move bards into what they should be: lawyers, face men, press agents, reputation-builders, and deep wells of role-play opportunities. As it is now, they are just a label slapped on a dungeon-crawl support class.
akr71
Adventurer
Ahh! This was mostly a tongue-in-cheek post, but I could get behind that type of Bard!
Stormonu
Legend
I don't like elves, can we remove those?
I have a great love of bards, but they are difficult to do because they aren't specialists but instead generalists. They also tend to be team players instead of focusing on DPS or the like. They work best when they are making everyone else better, not necessarily themselves.
I would like to see builds that don't depend on them being dependant on music. Bards could also derive powers based on lore and research (secret/ancient knowledge), not just song-related powers.
I have a great love of bards, but they are difficult to do because they aren't specialists but instead generalists. They also tend to be team players instead of focusing on DPS or the like. They work best when they are making everyone else better, not necessarily themselves.
I would like to see builds that don't depend on them being dependant on music. Bards could also derive powers based on lore and research (secret/ancient knowledge), not just song-related powers.
The Crimson Binome
Hero
I have nothing against the bard as a jack-of-all-trades, warrior/thief/wizard type, like they were in 2E. Under that paradigm, they would be able to swap spells on a long rest, because they use the same magic as wizards.
I'm also okay with a bard class that's actually a bard, and plays the harp in combat.
I'm not really okay with a bard who is just a spellcaster, but different from the wizard, and with better powers. If that's all they have to offer, then the game would be better off by removing it.
Ralif Redhammer
Legend
If I recall correctly, the C&C bard is more like a skald, and lacks spellcasting.
For my part, there are a lot of things a person could say D&D doesn't need. I think it doesn't need psionics, others love it. Some folks still think the only classes needed are fighting man, cleric, and magic-user.
The question of what is core to D&D isn't something easily resolved. And that's okay. Since the beginning D&D has ever invited people to hack it and make their own, the mostly ignored occasional dictum from on-high be damned.
For my part, there are a lot of things a person could say D&D doesn't need. I think it doesn't need psionics, others love it. Some folks still think the only classes needed are fighting man, cleric, and magic-user.
The question of what is core to D&D isn't something easily resolved. And that's okay. Since the beginning D&D has ever invited people to hack it and make their own, the mostly ignored occasional dictum from on-high be damned.
der_kluge
Adventurer
Jd Smith1
Hero
What point is this supposed to convey?
MGibster
Legend
Tomax and Xamot were the facemen, press agents, reputation-builders, and public face of Cobra. I mean they had a thin veneer of respectability in that they ran a successful "legitimate" business facade, but that's what they were.
der_kluge
Adventurer
And lawyers. Or were they accountants? No, lawyers, I think.
MGibster
Legend
They were the CEOs of Extensive Enterprises.
Jd Smith1
Hero
Horwath
Hero
A little rework of NPC/hireling/sidekick class Expert, could be a great "bard".
Lots of skills, lots of expertise, bonus action help, extra tools
maybe add cantrips known equall to prof bonus + int bonus, picked from any class to add extra versatility(yes, it will be Guidance 1st pick...I know).
Lots of skills, lots of expertise, bonus action help, extra tools
maybe add cantrips known equall to prof bonus + int bonus, picked from any class to add extra versatility(yes, it will be Guidance 1st pick...I know).
akr71
Adventurer
The bad guys in the G.I. Joe cartoon. After my time, but I had enough friends with little brothers, that I picked up on it.
In the context of D&D, the challenge for bards as a non-combat/non-support class is having them be relevant to game play. There need to be situations that are important in the context of play, and which call upon a lawyer or "face" or however one characterises the non-combat/non-support bard for their resolution.
There are many RPGs that illustrate how this can be done, but D&D tends not to be one of them.
There are many RPGs that illustrate how this can be done, but D&D tends not to be one of them.
Tyler Do'Urden
Soap Maker
To my mind 5E finally got the Bard right - the formula shouldn't be .5/.5/.5, but more like .8/.8/.8 - while it looks unbalanced on paper, it's limited by the fact that a single character can still only do one thing at a time, and is powerful enough to actually make a difference. The problem in the d20 system was that any "hybrid" class would rapidly be dramatically outclassed in every way - 5E got it right, making the Bard powerful enough to actually fill the roles it's needed for.
Though I must say, the idea of making them less of a caster and more of a face does interest me a bit - making something like the Starfinder Envoy class, which is one of the most interesting implementations of this idea I've seen to date, or perhaps mechanically more like the Warlock, as mentioned above. But for now the 5E core version suits me just fine.
Though I must say, the idea of making them less of a caster and more of a face does interest me a bit - making something like the Starfinder Envoy class, which is one of the most interesting implementations of this idea I've seen to date, or perhaps mechanically more like the Warlock, as mentioned above. But for now the 5E core version suits me just fine.
LuisCarlos17f
Hero
Bard, the magical girl who sings bardcore music.
All Disney princess wants to be bard when play D&D.
Bard is the sweet melody in the stealth operations where you need total silence to be not detected by the sentinels.
tvtropes.org
powerlisting.fandom.com
I imagine bards as spellcasters who needs music, dance or telling fairy tales to promote creativity and imagination because their true source of magic power is the fae glamour, and with glamour to craft single-use magic amulets. Their fae magic help them to survive but not to be powerful spellcasters.
To be more popular this class needs a right character in the media (cartoon, comic, novel, videogame). Maybe tomorrow a webtoon whose main character is a bard make this class to be more popular.
All Disney princess wants to be bard when play D&D.
Bard is the sweet melody in the stealth operations where you need total silence to be not detected by the sentinels.
Magic Idol Singer - TV Tropes
When a magical girl is also an idol singer. This usually comes in two varieties: An idol singer gains the ability to fight crime (often by way of singing). A girl becomes an idol singer through the use of magic. This type of magical girl is the …
tvtropes.org
Music-Based Abilities
powerlisting.fandom.com
I imagine bards as spellcasters who needs music, dance or telling fairy tales to promote creativity and imagination because their true source of magic power is the fae glamour, and with glamour to craft single-use magic amulets. Their fae magic help them to survive but not to be powerful spellcasters.
To be more popular this class needs a right character in the media (cartoon, comic, novel, videogame). Maybe tomorrow a webtoon whose main character is a bard make this class to be more popular.