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D&D doesn't need bards


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vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
Bard should have the spellcasting format of Warlock, replacing Invocation per Songs that can add effect to an aura around the bard and replacing Boons (at 1st level) with Performer's Focus: Blade (prof with martial, medium armor and Accro), Minstrel (Instrument as focus, prof in social skills) or Loremaster (tomes as focus, prof with knowledge skills and languages).
 

I'm just responding to @Morrus request for more suggestion threads for testing.

However, I don't like bards and think the game would be better without them. Certainly not as full casters and in no way should they be able to swap spells on a long rest.

Edited for grammer.

I agree: drop the spellcasting, and move bards into what they should be: lawyers, face men, press agents, reputation-builders, and deep wells of role-play opportunities. As it is now, they are just a label slapped on a dungeon-crawl support class.
 

akr71

Adventurer
Bard should have the spellcasting format of Warlock, replacing Invocation per Songs that can add effect to an aura around the bard and replacing Boons (at 1st level) with Performer's Focus: Blade (prof with martial, medium armor and Accro), Minstrel (Instrument as focus, prof in social skills) or Loremaster (tomes as focus, prof with knowledge skills and languages).
Ahh! This was mostly a tongue-in-cheek post, but I could get behind that type of Bard!
 

Stormonu

Legend
I don't like elves, can we remove those?

I have a great love of bards, but they are difficult to do because they aren't specialists but instead generalists. They also tend to be team players instead of focusing on DPS or the like. They work best when they are making everyone else better, not necessarily themselves.

I would like to see builds that don't depend on them being dependant on music. Bards could also derive powers based on lore and research (secret/ancient knowledge), not just song-related powers.
 

I'm just responding to @Morrus request for more suggestion threads for testing.

However, I don't like bards and think the game would be better without them. Certainly not as full casters and in no way should they be able to swap spells on a long rest.
I have nothing against the bard as a jack-of-all-trades, warrior/thief/wizard type, like they were in 2E. Under that paradigm, they would be able to swap spells on a long rest, because they use the same magic as wizards.

I'm also okay with a bard class that's actually a bard, and plays the harp in combat.

I'm not really okay with a bard who is just a spellcaster, but different from the wizard, and with better powers. If that's all they have to offer, then the game would be better off by removing it.
 

If I recall correctly, the C&C bard is more like a skald, and lacks spellcasting.

For my part, there are a lot of things a person could say D&D doesn't need. I think it doesn't need psionics, others love it. Some folks still think the only classes needed are fighting man, cleric, and magic-user.

The question of what is core to D&D isn't something easily resolved. And that's okay. Since the beginning D&D has ever invited people to hack it and make their own, the mostly ignored occasional dictum from on-high be damned.
 

der_kluge

Adventurer
I agree: drop the spellcasting, and move bards into what they should be: lawyers, face men, press agents, reputation-builders, and deep wells of role-play opportunities. As it is now, they are just a label slapped on a dungeon-crawl support class.

tomax-and-xamot-ee8fb713-7864-49ab-a3c7-e4f26937db3-resize-750.jpg
 



der_kluge

Adventurer
Tomax and Xamot were the facemen, press agents, reputation-builders, and public face of Cobra. I mean they had a thin veneer of respectability in that they ran a successful "legitimate" business facade, but that's what they were.
And lawyers. Or were they accountants? No, lawyers, I think.
 


Tomax and Xamot were the facemen, press agents, reputation-builders, and public face of Cobra. I mean they had a thin veneer of respectability in that they ran a successful "legitimate" business facade, but that's what they were.

Ah.

Cobra being a D&D-based cartoon, I take it?
 

Horwath

Hero
A little rework of NPC/hireling/sidekick class Expert, could be a great "bard".

Lots of skills, lots of expertise, bonus action help, extra tools
maybe add cantrips known equall to prof bonus + int bonus, picked from any class to add extra versatility(yes, it will be Guidance 1st pick...I know).
 


pemerton

Legend
In the context of D&D, the challenge for bards as a non-combat/non-support class is having them be relevant to game play. There need to be situations that are important in the context of play, and which call upon a lawyer or "face" or however one characterises the non-combat/non-support bard for their resolution.

There are many RPGs that illustrate how this can be done, but D&D tends not to be one of them.
 

Tyler Do'Urden

Soap Maker
To my mind 5E finally got the Bard right - the formula shouldn't be .5/.5/.5, but more like .8/.8/.8 - while it looks unbalanced on paper, it's limited by the fact that a single character can still only do one thing at a time, and is powerful enough to actually make a difference. The problem in the d20 system was that any "hybrid" class would rapidly be dramatically outclassed in every way - 5E got it right, making the Bard powerful enough to actually fill the roles it's needed for.

Though I must say, the idea of making them less of a caster and more of a face does interest me a bit - making something like the Starfinder Envoy class, which is one of the most interesting implementations of this idea I've seen to date, or perhaps mechanically more like the Warlock, as mentioned above. But for now the 5E core version suits me just fine.
 

Bard, the magical girl who sings bardcore music.


All Disney princess wants to be bard when play D&D.


Bard is the sweet melody in the stealth operations where you need total silence to be not detected by the sentinels.




I imagine bards as spellcasters who needs music, dance or telling fairy tales to promote creativity and imagination because their true source of magic power is the fae glamour, and with glamour to craft single-use magic amulets. Their fae magic help them to survive but not to be powerful spellcasters.

To be more popular this class needs a right character in the media (cartoon, comic, novel, videogame). Maybe tomorrow a webtoon whose main character is a bard make this class to be more popular.
 

Ace

Adventurer
Bards really weren't a thing in early D&D, janky optional AD&D prestige class not withstanding and the game would fine, maybe better without them. Still 5E offers enough interesting "not a lute plonker" variants to make them palatable and I wouldn't limit them in my game.
 

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