D&D eXPerience: My Experience

[Fallen Seraph]

They admitted a few things might not be perfect...this included the transition of the two magazines as well. And we did talk some of the issues involved in keeping track of the powers all charecters now get as another potential challenge.

But, I also wan't to note that in play, I did not feel "this was less real" when say someone used an exploit (martial power) or because some skill were consolidated, then 3.5. I think with a group that pays attention to detail and is into the role-playing, the "versimultude" (sic) would still be there.

Well if that doesn't show the designers are human I don't know what well.

That is good to here, I didn't think it would effect my group that much. Given how we are the type that run on rooftops then leap off the roof onto galloping horses, but still good to here

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'd quibble with the idea that simulation and "how it actually plays" are different ends of a scale. To some of us "how it actually plays" and simulation are more in touch than in contrast.

But that aside, I do find it very refreshing to see this openly stated.
We keep getting these abstract comments one after another that the game isn't leaving anything out, it isn't "simple" its "elegant", etc... But those statements always come in a vacuum and a reading of the actual rules that have been brought out so far don't jive with that position for many of us.

If what you want is a level of simulationist immersion, then 4e is, quite simply, not at all "more elegant". It is just "simple" at the price of reduced simulation. It is a whole lot less elegant.

And if WotC believes that a gamist, hack'n'slash

I was with you right up until you decided to characterize a style of play that you don't agree with as a "gamist hack'n'slash." The cheap shot in passing undermines your point. I also simultaneously note that the Ain't It Cool News reviewer has pointed out that it is entirely possible to conduct a 4e adventure that involves no fights whatsoever, and that this is, in fact, easy to accomplish.

 

[Ipissimus]

Can we infer from that that you are wearing Wormwoods underwear?

At least I'm wearing pants.

 

[Zoatebix]

Dave, did you get a chance to see how 'slowed' works?

I used Sleep in my Delve, so I saw slowed in action. A slowed creature has its movement reduced to 2 squares.

 

[TerraDave]

More on "simulation": one thing that does strike me as I think about it is the healing rules. Setting aside "what is hp", after getting stabbed, burned, covered in acid, and so on...you get up the next morning...and your fine.

I actually think for most groups, this will cut down on book keeping and just make life easier. Still...for others: maybe surges go from per day to per week, and a long rest needs to really be a long rest...

 

[Firevalkyrie]

More on "simulation": one thing that does strike me as I think about it is the healing rules. Setting aside "what is hp", after getting stabbed, burned, covered in acid, and so on...you get up the next morning...and your fine.

I actually think for most groups, this will cut down on book keeping and just make life easier. Still...for others: maybe surges go from per day to per week, and a long rest needs to really be a long rest...

Yup, I noticed that too... you can easily change the grit slider just by changing up how long it takes for healing surges to come back. A game where you get all your healing surges back at the end of the day is going to feel very different from one where you get half back at the end of the day, or one back at the end of the day, or get them all back at the end of the week.

 

[Hussar]

On behalf of all the players currently wearing my underwear---we approve of this shift in focus!

On behalf of all the players wishing Wormwood would stop wearing his underwear on his head -- we approve of this shift in focus.

 

[FourthBear]

I believe that the changes to the game in 4e will result in the actual play simulating a fantasy adventure story more often. This will result in some odd deviations in terms of consistency across PCs/NPCs/Monsters. But I believe most of those are due to the source material not having strong consistency across these issues. Protagonists in many fantasy stories simply don't behave the same way as the Guy With Supposedly the Same Training whos dies to the monsters in chapter two. Of course, the other primary driver is making work for the DM in play easier, which has led to some simplifying assumptions for monsters and NPCs. Overall, I think many people will find these good trade-offs.

 

[MarauderX]

I chatted with Andy Collins & James Wyatt separately yesterday.

Andy Collins was a great DM who ran the ongoing Delve 4E adventure. He was accurate, consistant, and a fast-running DM; He was awesome, and the best Con DM I've ever had. He was glad to be there running the game in front of people, and answering their many questions in person as opposed to over the phone. Andy fielded a number of questions on D&D XP's downgraded benefits for DMs with the practiced style of a business manager. His answer was that sometimes cuts need to be made to ensure the convention runs well, and with the vast number of DM volunteers, it becomes easier to cut down on the free rooms, meals, swag, and other amenities.

I asked James about the 'numbers' for 4E and he replied that one gentleman, whose name now escapes me, is in charge of it for all of the game. They did not contract a third party to double check or hire a separate person as sometimes occurs with MMORPGs or other video games. When asked about reliability and whether there was risk of needing to tweek the game (release 4.5), James was confident that the game was solid and said "Only after there are a few dead bodies, many dead bodies, will there be a 4.5."

I also asked James about his books and wondered why they didn't have the reviews that nearly all of the other books in the genre have. He said that it gets a bit hectic, and though it was slated for heavier promotion, there wasn't a pre-release to reviewers before it was published.

 

[BryonD]

I was with you right up until you decided to characterize a style of play that you don't agree with as a "gamist hack'n'slash." The cheap shot in passing undermines your point. I also simultaneously note that the Ain't It Cool News reviewer has pointed out that it is entirely possible to conduct a 4e adventure that involves no fights whatsoever, and that this is, in fact, easy to accomplish.

Three things:
I don't consider hack'n'slash a bad thing. I only meant it as a more narrow subset of gaming than what I am looking for. Parts of my regular game become hack'n'slash at times and I also happily play games that are nothing more than pure hack'n'slash on occasion. So it really was not meant as a cheap shot, but simply as a description of the game style I see being emphasized

I have just come over from posting about monster being pure combat creatures and how everyone is celebrating that fact. Which put me in the "hack'n'slash" mindset. My bad because obviously there is no context for that here.

Lastly, I admit that it wasn't the best possible choice of words since, obviously, you can roleplay anything. But comments in this thread and prior conversations have stressed that 4e is more abstract, less simulationist, less supportive of world-building (with some posters even celebrating their liberation from the tortures of world-building dms), etc... Nothing that has been said has given me the slightest idea that 4E provides added more incentive for non-combat stuff and lots of things seem to add incentive to the battle side of things. So I'm not at all claiming that it demands it, the overall tone of "get this stuff that has nothing to do with me killing the monster out of my way" vibe certainly makes me see 4e as well further down the hack'n'slash axis than 3E. And 3e can still be very very hack'n'slash.

So I think it was a fairly reasonable characterization. But it wasn't a cheap shot or any kind of badwrongfun claim. It was just a relative characterization.