D&D feel/fun in games without class, level, etc. (+)

[Autumnal]

Even those of us who prefer not to use most of the mechanics of the D&D extended family of games - classes, levels, Vancian magic in all its forms (including spell points), etc etc - may sometimes get a hankering for some D&D-ish adventure. A favorite setting, an interesting-looking dungeon, a fun set of tables to roll on, anything might do it. What games do you/have you used for fast relief of major symptoms, and how did it go? What have you considered using?

A couple quick notes: Yes, this is a plus thread. Please don’t go hating on D&D or other kinds of games or others’ preferences and experiences, thank you. If you have a vibe from a particular edition or related game (Pathfinder 1e or 2e, 13th Age, etc), please do say so - clarity and specificity are our special friends.

Have at it!

 

[Tonguez]

Theres a good Pathfinder Fate Accelerated hack

heres Pathfinder Iconic Royce using PFA

​

 

[overgeeked]

The closest to the feel in an intentionally designed game, i.e. not a generic/universal system, would be Dungeon World. But it does use classes. It's a Powered by the Apocalypse game that's designed around many/most of the same tropes as D&D.

Some other options are Savage Worlds, there is a specific Pathfinder for Savage Worlds game out that mixes a specifically D&D-esque setting into the Savage Worlds rules.

Robin Laws' HeroQuest 2E was great fun to use as a D&D stand in. Played through part of an adventure path with that. Super quick resolution...to the point where we completed half of the first book in a 4-hour session...when each book would normally take months to complete when using D&D or Pathfinder.

I've used Over the Edge 3E to run all kinds of things, including D&D-esque fantasy. That was great and quick.

Fate Core, Accelerated, and Condensed would all work to greater or lesser degree depending on how detailed you want the magic system.

Going super-light you have X-Treme Dungeon Mastery 2E, which was written by Tracy Hickman. It's got three stats and free-form magic. If you like mostly narrating things and rolling dice on occasion, it's fantastic.

There's also Risus where the players fill in their cliches and rolls some d6s when you ask. It can do fantasy fighting games well enough, if you don't mind the slightly comedic bent.

 

[Autumnal]

Theres a good Pathfinder Fate Accelerated hack

heres Pathfinder Iconic Royce using PFA

Hey, I forgot about that. thank you! updates a bookmark

The closest to the feel in an intentionally designed game, i.e. not a generic/universal system, would be Dungeon World. But it does use classes. It's a Powered by the Apocalypse game that's designed around many/most of the same tropes as D&D.

Yeah, I haven’t, but it’s not a flavor I seek at the moment.

Some other options are Savage Worlds, there is a specific Pathfinder for Savage Worlds game out that mixes a specifically D&D-esque setting into the Savage Worlds rules.

For whatever reason, I just don’t hear the music with Savage Worlds. Enough people with tastes I do like and respect enjoy it they I’m entirely comfortable with saying the problem is on my end, though.

Robin Laws' HeroQuest 2E was great fun to use as a D&D stand in. Played through part of an adventure path with that. Super quick resolution...to the point where we completed half of the first book in a 4-hour session...when each book would normally take months to complete when using D&D or Pathfinder.

Oh, I loved HQ and am looking forward to QW; I’ve bashed up an epub of the 0.97 SRD. I’m fascinated to hear that the AP went as fast as I thought it might.

've used Over the Edge 3E to run all kinds of things, including D&D-esque fantasy. That was great and quick.

I should give that a try. Big fan of OTE from its early days but haven’t used 3e much yet.

Fate Core, Accelerated, and Condensed would all work to greater or lesser degree depending on how detailed you want the magic system.

Oh, I love me some Accelersted, yes. It’s one of those games I wanted back when I started RPGung in the ‘70s but didn’t know how to ask for.

Going super-light you have X-Treme Dungeon Mastery 2E, which was written by Tracy Hickman. It's got three stats and free-form magic. If you like mostly narrating things and rolling dice on occasion, it's fantastic.

Huh. OK.

There's also Risus where the players fill in their cliches and rolls some d6s when you ask. It can do fantasy fighting games well enough, if you don't mind the slightly comedic bent.

I am a big fan of Risus, including for serious purposes.

Thanks!

 

[Thomas Shey]

Its hard to tell the borders of what you're asking for, Autumnal. I mean, do you want to hear of D&D offshoots? Because a lot of games with a D&D feel to me are kin to one degree or another. I mean, I love a couple non-D&D fantasy games, but its usually because of the ways they don't feel like D&D (Fantasy Hero or Mythras, say); when I want that feel I'm usually for something similar but that avoids some of the features I least like.

 

[Autumnal]

That’s a good question and I’m not entirely sure, honestly. I’ll have to think about it.

 

[overgeeked]

That’s a good question and I’m not entirely sure, honestly. I’ll have to think about it.

There are heaps of D&D-like games in the OSR and NuSR movements. Most of them with varying degrees of similarity to D&D proper.

If you’re looking for grimdark, try Mork Borg. Pirates, try Pirate Borg. Moorcock-style sword & sorcery, try Black Sword Hack. Honorable mentions go to Five Torches Deep, Cairn, Knave, Into the Odd, Index Card RPG, Ultraviolet Grasslands, Acid Death Fantasy, and Maze Rats.

Lots of great games in that space if you can avoid the nastier elements of the scene.

 

[dbm]

GURPS has an extensive range of supplements to support what I call ‘combat-spelunking’. The Dungeon Fantasy series has an extensive set of PDFs and there is also a stand-alone box set which obviates the need for the core books if people prefer that option. It does quite a good job, but it’s a very precise game if you are playing it by-the-book. It’s certainly a great option if you want more nuanced and foregrounded martial characters - in GURPS it is much easier to hurt someone on a regular basis with a sword than with magic. And the combat system has extensive options baked-in without them being locked behind feats or similar.

One of the most enduring D&D-isms in my experience is strong archetypes, so while GURPS doesn’t implement classes as such, the templates are used to delineate archetypes and create niche protection. Pathfinder for Savage Worlds does a similar thing with ‘class edges’ that replace some of the standard edges in the game. I see a very similar thing in other not-D&D systems where archetype tends to be promoted in some way or other.

The other classic fantasy system is probably RuneQuest? I have only played a smattering of this over the years but my understanding is that archetypes are kind of implemented through the concept of cults and guilds. To learn the highest levels of ability (in a system with completely free-form development) you need access to specialist training and access to this is controlled in-character rather than by the rules directly. If you are spending your time and energy rising through the ranks of cult-A then cult-B may not even admit you, and you certainly won’t have the time to rise to the highest levels of both.

 

[Autumnal]

There are heaps of D&D-like games in the OSR and NuSR movements. Most of them with varying degrees of similarity to D&D proper.

Yeah, I know, but even the best of them to my taste - Shadowdark and UVG - are still essentially D&D-ish, with varying mixes of the same fundamental structures. Not what I’m looking for at the moment. Running UVG with something thoroughly different mechanically is on my wish list.

GURPS has an extensive range of supplements to support what I call ‘combat-spelunking’. The Dungeon Fantasy series has an extensive set of PDFs and there is also a stand-alone box set which obviates the need for the core books if people prefer that option.

I’m aware it exists, but it seems substantially crunchier than I can handle these days and without something to try out that’s cheap enough to be a reasonable purchase for me if it turns out to be a dud (for me) and compact enough to be within reach of my addled brain, alas. I like the idea, but I think it’s out of my reach for now.

The general idea of fairly strong templates suits me. I liked WEG Star Wars a lot and think it’s a good answer for many situations.

 

[dbm]

If lightweight fantasy games are of primary interest then Warrior, Rogue and Mage is super light and free so worth a look at the very least.

Advanced Fighting Fantasy might also be worth looking at.

I have only read these, not run them; they are a bit too light for my personal tastes.