D&D 4E D&D Fluff Wars: 4e vs 5e

[maceochaid]

Hot take: It's symmetry. People like symmetry, far more than was obvious when the 4e design maxim of "avoiding needless symmetry" was coined.

You don't have to look farther than the calls for a "martial controller" by plenty of people who did like 4e than to see how embedded the desire to see grids filled in and patterns matched up.

Ugh, I definitely hate symmetry. That was my favorite phrase of 4e (we did not need the various different iterations on Neutral Good Planes). I was glad that they stuck to their guns over the Martial Controller.

 

[maceochaid]

Dragons! I loved what 4e did with Dragons. All these editions, and the Metallic Dragons made no sense to me - so, they're supposed to be the Good Dragons, and yet, everything I read about them suggests they're just as arrogant and controlling as the Chromatics. Changing them to Unaligned really was a huge step up.

And let's not forget the single crowning achievement of 4E fluff, making Blue Dragons coastal dragons. This seriously one of the things that bothered me the most about 5E, that they were put back in the desert, which makes NO sense.

 

[cbwjm]

And let's not forget the single crowning achievement of 4E fluff, making Blue Dragons coastal dragons. This seriously one of the things that bothered me the most about 5E, that they were put back in the desert, which makes NO sense.

Why doesn't it make sense?

 

[Uchawi]

5E is a mixed bag. From a fluff or even mechanical perspective 4E was the easiest to manage for me as a DM, with the exception of AEDU if you wanted to go old school mechanics (vancian, multiple attacks, etc.) As to other items that are considered cannon for a particular setting, I just wish 5E would bring back more settings versus defaulting on FR.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Why doesn't it make sense?

It's a case of glaring lack of symmetry when compared to the other chromatic dragons; whites are found in snowy/icy terrain, greens dwell in forests, blacks favor swamps, and reds prefer hills and mountains - all of which result in the hue of the dragon potentially aiding camouflage in their respective terrain preferences.

Then there are the blues, who like to live in the desert, where their hue is the opposite of blending in with the terrain... and they share the desert with brown dragons and yellow dragons, so it further highlights how not quite fitting their hue is to their chosen terrain, while also leaving the coastal terrain without a chromatic dragon type that prefers to live there.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it because I grew up in a desert - and if dragons are as intelligent as humans, and humans choose to live in the desert even though they aren't particular suited to it, blue dragons can do the same. It drives some people a bit wacky though.

 

[cbwjm]

I remember reading something about Blue dragons where they would hide under the sand before striking. Or that their blue colouration enabled them to blend into the blue sky making them hard to spot.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I remember reading something about Blue dragons where they would hide under the sand before striking.

Yeah, some book or another suggested they'd bury themselves just below the surface of the sand to wait for something to ambush. I even recall a piece of art showing just the blue dragon's iconic yellow horns jutting out of the sand looking like rocks.

Or that their blue colouration enabled them to blend into the blue sky making them hard to spot.

I'm not sure I ever read that anywhere, but it doesn't entirely make sense - sky hunter coloration is less relevant than their ability to not have their prey notice their shadow until it is too late to escape their dive attack, and blue dragon underbellies and wing-skin have always been yellow in D&D. Maybe that's a thing Pathfinder did to try and make more sense out of the situation?

 

[cbwjm]

Yeah, some book or another suggested they'd bury themselves just below the surface of the sand to wait for something to ambush. I even recall a piece of art showing just the blue dragon's iconic yellow horns jutting out of the sand looking like rocks.

I'm not sure I ever read that anywhere, but it doesn't entirely make sense - sky hunter coloration is less relevant than their ability to not have their prey notice their shadow until it is too late to escape their dive attack, and blue dragon underbellies and wing-skin have always been yellow in D&D. Maybe that's a thing Pathfinder did to try and make more sense out of the situation?

Maybe it was pathfinder, I've no idea where I read the bit about their colouration against the sky. I think I recall that piece of art as well, it's what I was thinking of when I was typing it up.

 

[SkidAce]

I remember reading it too, but cant recall where.

 

[cbwjm]

I remember reading it too, but cant recall where.

Between all the different editions of dnd, dragon & dungeon magazines, and third party material, it can be really hard to determine where you read something. It kind of all blurs together.