D&D haters???

[YourSwordIsMine]

Might I also suggest Michael Stackpole's refutation of the claims of D&D's 'satanic' and 'suicidal' influnces? The Pulling Report, I believe it's called. Show that to the parents.

I think Mr. Stackpole is mainly refuting the "Satanic Conspiracy" fear mongering that Mrs. Pulling propogated during that time.

edit to add more to my train of thought.

If the girls mother is against Dungeons and Dragons for reliegious reasons I do not think there is anything that you can say or do to change her mind against it. From a purely biblical Christain point of view D&D is evil due to its content (occultism, magic, demons, worshipping of false gods). UNfortunately due to the bad media attention D&D got during the 80's it has tainted the whole of the role-playing industry to the point (D&D is Role-Playing/Role-Playing is D&D) that people think it is evil as well.

self edit

I guess what I'm trying to say and I'm speaking from experience; you wont be able to get her mother to let your friend play D&D but you might have better luck getting her to let her play a role-playing game, one without the words Dungeons and Dragons in the title. Even then its not likely due to the stigma that resides on the industry as a whole.

 

[Jim Hague]

I think Mr. Stackpole is mainly refuting the "Satanic Conspiracy" fear mongering that Mrs. Pulling propogated during that time.

Which is the same thing we're speaking of here - Pulling and her cronies did a lot to propagate the myths that persist to today. It's a good resource.

You can also point the parents to games like Green Ronin's Testament, explicitly set in the Biblical period and cracking good fun to boot.

 

[Celebrim]

Which is the same thing we're speaking of here...

No, I don't think it is. The occult influences of D&D are kinda undeniable. You can refute Mrs. Pulling, you can refute that they make the game Satanic, or that they make people more likely to commit suicide, but you can't refute the bare fact that they are there.

Irritatingly to me, Mr. Stackpole's 'Pulling Report' is sometimes guilty of the same boneheaded assumptions that Mrs. Pulling is guilty of, that being, 'My experiences with gaming are representative of the whole.' It wouldn't be very difficult at all to take particular 'refutations' that Mr. Stackpole makes and get rollicking good arguments over them even amongst gamers. Nor is Mr. Stackpole's report of much use to preaching to anyone but the choir.

The serious rebuttle of Mrs. Pulling, and one that Mr. Stackpole makes, is that in her writings about alleged criminal cases relating to D&D, she has had only a casual relationship with the truth. That charge is to the point, and is I think well established. On the other hand, it is not well established that "alignments are generally viewed with distaste among players"

I think it would be a mistake to think that D&D's problems get widespread acceptance have anything to do with Mrs. Pulling, Jack Chick, or even Pat Robertson.

You can also point the parents to games like Green Ronin's Testament, explicitly set in the Biblical period and cracking good fun to boot.

Speaking as someone who is very religious, no you must certainly not do this. Vainity is one thing, and in the context of a game rather minor issue since all games are vain to some extent, but blasphemy and sacriledge is a far more serious problem. The thing about having a pure fantasy is that you don't have to make any direct statements about anything real. When you explicitly set your game in the real world of a real religion, then everything you do in the game is making a statement about the real world. I have no real problem acting as a DM in the role of Zeus. I'd rather hesitate to act as a DM in the role of God, or do anything else in that setting for fear of leading someone astray as a false teacher, etc.

 

[el-remmen]

Ironically, when I saw that movie I thought to myself, "Wow! I wouldn't mind playing that!"

Ha! I own the book and the movie because it was the way I was introduced to it, too!

 

[Aeolius]

...I have no real problem acting as a DM in the role of Zeus. I'd rather hesitate to act as a DM in the role of God...

There are those who see no less validity in the polytheistic worship of ancient religions, than the monotheistic worship of a relative newcomer. i.e. I think using ANY real-world religious reference in D&D is not the wisest of decisions.. Thor in 4e... puh-leeze. Granted, contrary to that train of thought, I'd like to see a witch class and shaman class in the core rules.

Ironically, my oldest brother, who now opposes D&D based on his religious beliefs, is the one who bought the Basic D&D set that got me into the hobby in the first place!

 

[Celebrim]

There are those who see no less validity in the polytheistic worship of ancient religions, than the monotheistic worship of a relative newcomer. i.e. I think using ANY real-world religious reference in D&D is not the wisest of decisions.. Thor in 4e... puh-leeze.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't really want to get in an argument with a neo-Wotanist over an RPG, nor do I want to find that one of my players is a neo-Wotanist who considers his playing of the game a religious experience.

Granted, contrary to that train of thought, I'd like to see a witch class and shaman class in the core rules.

Unless by 'shaman' you mean specifically a practicioner of a animistic religion native to Siberia, then 'shaman' doesn't refer to any particular real world religion. It's a very generic term, generally applied to a priest of any animistic nature religion.

Witch is even more vague in its meaning. It's one of those words in the modern English language with a meaning that is pretty much unknowable without knowing the speaker. Like Galadriel, I'm at a loss to give it any meaning because people use it to refer to so many different things.

 

[Aeolius]

Witch is even more vague in its meaning.

Specifically, I want a 3.5e conversion of the witch class from DRAGON #114:

The main protagonist NPC in all of my online games is a neutrally-aligned night hag who began as a witch/dreamer, using the witch class mentioned above and the dreamer "demi-class" from another DRAGON issue. Granted, now Xaetra is an unliving spirit hag (ghost, spectral hag, whatever).

 

[Celebrim]

Specifically, I want a 3.5e conversion of the witch class from DRAGON #114:

The main protagonist NPC in all of my online games is a neutrally-aligned night hag who began as a witch/dreamer, using the witch class mentioned above and the dreamer "demi-class" from another DRAGON issue. Granted, now Xaetra is an unliving spirit hag (ghost, spectral hag, whatever).

Isn't that the one that has a spell like 'Bones to Jello' that is basically, 'Die, no save'?

 

[palleomortis]

Ooooh. I like the sounds of that.

 

[AnonymousOne]

When I was at University 10 years ago, urban folklore had it that the city of Tauranga, New Zealand had banned roleplaying in public following a larp incident.

A ... what?