Aus_Snow
First Post
Do you mean the term? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_gameAnonymousOne said:
Or the incident? . . . Hm, no link. Don't know either!
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D&D haters???
- Thread starter palleomortis
- Start date
Or the incident? . . . Hm, no link. Don't know either!
AnonymousOne
First Post
ooohhhh if it was capped I would have looked for an acronym. Why the deuce would they ban Role playing after a LARP unless someone got injured?
palleomortis
First Post
Larps range and take form in many different ways. There's a decent chance there was a LARP that included magic into it's style, and there was an uproar for it being an attempt at "wichcraft", or somthing simular. Wouldn't help much if someone got injured during it too.
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Wild Gazebo
Explorer
I know the situations that I have been involved with over the years, concerning the evils of D&D, have revolved around much more mundane topics.
The biggest worry from friend and family tended to be, similar to what Celebrim mentioned, simply the act of role-playing: The depth of character and world immersion and its effect on ones reality. I know I have seen people (with admittedly mild to severe mental disorders) really have a hard time bridging the gap. And I find it difficult to believe that it hasn’t changed or at least affected me in some minor to profound way. It has really bothered some of my friends and family--at times--the shear length of time I have spent (that they have perceived me spending) living in a fantasy world...and I think there is some merit to that.
The second biggest worry has been the real lack of physical activity that this game encompasses. Lets face it, most gaming sessions are a couple hours at the minimum (at least mine are). I find it difficult to game anything significant in fewer than four hours. And if this became a serious hobby, compulsion, addiction...becoming a daily or multi-weekly endeavor...it could be quite counter productive to your health if you didn't balance it properly with healthy diet and exercise.
The third is the social stigma it draws. Not the devil worship: The still present geek culture and the trials that are still endured through a lack of any real social skill...or lack of initiative/effort into joining inclusive/exclusive social groups. There seems to hold an innate antisocial behaviour in any sort of hobbyist...perhaps because they are more interested in the object/environment rather than the people involved <shrug>.
So, I guess, what I mean is: There can be some very reasonable issues at play that have very little to do with the social bludgeoning D&D has suffered over its rather short lifespan.
The biggest worry from friend and family tended to be, similar to what Celebrim mentioned, simply the act of role-playing: The depth of character and world immersion and its effect on ones reality. I know I have seen people (with admittedly mild to severe mental disorders) really have a hard time bridging the gap. And I find it difficult to believe that it hasn’t changed or at least affected me in some minor to profound way. It has really bothered some of my friends and family--at times--the shear length of time I have spent (that they have perceived me spending) living in a fantasy world...and I think there is some merit to that.
The second biggest worry has been the real lack of physical activity that this game encompasses. Lets face it, most gaming sessions are a couple hours at the minimum (at least mine are). I find it difficult to game anything significant in fewer than four hours. And if this became a serious hobby, compulsion, addiction...becoming a daily or multi-weekly endeavor...it could be quite counter productive to your health if you didn't balance it properly with healthy diet and exercise.
The third is the social stigma it draws. Not the devil worship: The still present geek culture and the trials that are still endured through a lack of any real social skill...or lack of initiative/effort into joining inclusive/exclusive social groups. There seems to hold an innate antisocial behaviour in any sort of hobbyist...perhaps because they are more interested in the object/environment rather than the people involved <shrug>.
So, I guess, what I mean is: There can be some very reasonable issues at play that have very little to do with the social bludgeoning D&D has suffered over its rather short lifespan.
palleomortis
First Post
As ligitement as all of those points are, and very worth considering, you also have to realize the alternative. Perhaps it's not near so much an issue with people who have moved on out of high school, or their adolescent, teen-age idiocy years, but so far as my age group goes, there's much worse that could happen. You have to take into account things such as gameing systems (Xbox, Playstation, Wii), Computer interaction (Myspace additions, chating), and the other time fillers (Movies, TV, ...Nothing). While D&D can have it's negative effects when compared to other more ideal lives, you have to realize that it is actually often saving more than killing. It get the screen out of your face and replaces it with people and friends, it gets you out of the house, it gets your imagination going, as well as other things. And to be perfectly frank, I think that if it gets to the point that your saying it is non-physical, or anti-social, then your more looking for reasons NOT to play, and are bound to find them in some fashion or another. Don't get me wrong though, I'm sure there are some out there that actually do have such tight scheduals of school or work that taking four-ish hours to play would cuase some damage, or at least change, in their daily lives.
johnsemlak
First Post
Is D&D any less of a social activity than going to a sports match and screaming obscenities at the ref for a couple of hours and then getting drunk (just to name one activity besides D&D)? Is D&D any more counter-productive to bettering yourself? Is it any more juvenile?
I have a colleague at work who was telling me about how he saw some young men dressed up in armor and fighting with swords or whatever. He found it an amusing way to spend free time--he said 'I think I did that when I was...four'. I tried to say..'Haven't you ever been to a Renaissance fair or something?' Later I thought--this guy spends a bit of his weekend time watching rugby on tv (i.e. grown men throwing a ball around and pushing each other around in huge packs) and he's making fun of other people for how they spend their free time.
I have a colleague at work who was telling me about how he saw some young men dressed up in armor and fighting with swords or whatever. He found it an amusing way to spend free time--he said 'I think I did that when I was...four'. I tried to say..'Haven't you ever been to a Renaissance fair or something?' Later I thought--this guy spends a bit of his weekend time watching rugby on tv (i.e. grown men throwing a ball around and pushing each other around in huge packs) and he's making fun of other people for how they spend their free time.
cwhs01
First Post
(don't?) Try explaining it a little like this...
The following is often IMO statements. a few times things i don't really believe, but sounded cool when i wrote them...
Roleplaying games usually contain the following elements emphasized to varying degrees:
Social networking: hanging out with friends, talking, chatting (sipping a fine Amarone while discussing fine points of politics and philosophy before and after actual play) etc.
When participating in the game, players and gm accept an unspoken social contract to promote whatever elements of the game each other player considers fun and entertaining.
Friendly Competetion: While rpg's (very true for DnD) usually have game elements resembling those of boardgames, they aren't really (i think?) true games as defined by game theory. But there certainly can exist a sort of friendly rivalry and competitiveness similar to that observed in other social games (as monopoly or trivial pursuit) even though the true goal of play is actually to continue playing, as is the case with any other social game. Unless playing with a RBDM, everyone is a winner. In the special case of monopoly, the aim is to finish the agony of playing a stupid boring game as quickly as possible. Dice are often used to introduce an element of randomness, though comprehensive rulesets still promotes understanding of the rules guidelines and creativity in order to remain competitive.
Cooperative Interactive Storytelling: A dnd campaign is (usually) a series of linked adventures, (most often) structured as simple adventure/fantasy stories with a beginning, middle and an end. The plot, setting and non-player characters in the stories are invented and described by the gm, modified in response to the players describing their characters actions and reactions to the gms story.
Amateur thespians: GM and Players participate in the telling of a fantasy story, as actors and directors would do in a movie. In rpg's the equivalent of a script is only known beforehand to the GM. The "actors" get the opportunity to surprise the "director" with clever improvisation resulting in introduction of plot twists and witty dialogue. Player "acting" is always done by describing his characters actions, ranging from describing a characters actions during the "boardgame" to deep in-character conversations or deliviring of improvised monologues. Dice are often imployed to introduce an element of randomness in how the story unfolds.
When described like this, to an outsider, RPG's must be boring and thus very safe
Maybe downplay the sipping of expensive wines part a bit.
and sorry for my ramblings. I'll just go get some sleep shall i?
The following is often IMO statements. a few times things i don't really believe, but sounded cool when i wrote them...
Roleplaying games usually contain the following elements emphasized to varying degrees:
Social networking: hanging out with friends, talking, chatting (sipping a fine Amarone while discussing fine points of politics and philosophy before and after actual play) etc.
When participating in the game, players and gm accept an unspoken social contract to promote whatever elements of the game each other player considers fun and entertaining.
Friendly Competetion: While rpg's (very true for DnD) usually have game elements resembling those of boardgames, they aren't really (i think?) true games as defined by game theory. But there certainly can exist a sort of friendly rivalry and competitiveness similar to that observed in other social games (as monopoly or trivial pursuit) even though the true goal of play is actually to continue playing, as is the case with any other social game. Unless playing with a RBDM, everyone is a winner. In the special case of monopoly, the aim is to finish the agony of playing a stupid boring game as quickly as possible. Dice are often used to introduce an element of randomness, though comprehensive rulesets still promotes understanding of the rules guidelines and creativity in order to remain competitive.
Cooperative Interactive Storytelling: A dnd campaign is (usually) a series of linked adventures, (most often) structured as simple adventure/fantasy stories with a beginning, middle and an end. The plot, setting and non-player characters in the stories are invented and described by the gm, modified in response to the players describing their characters actions and reactions to the gms story.
Amateur thespians: GM and Players participate in the telling of a fantasy story, as actors and directors would do in a movie. In rpg's the equivalent of a script is only known beforehand to the GM. The "actors" get the opportunity to surprise the "director" with clever improvisation resulting in introduction of plot twists and witty dialogue. Player "acting" is always done by describing his characters actions, ranging from describing a characters actions during the "boardgame" to deep in-character conversations or deliviring of improvised monologues. Dice are often imployed to introduce an element of randomness in how the story unfolds.
When described like this, to an outsider, RPG's must be boring and thus very safe
Maybe downplay the sipping of expensive wines part a bit.
and sorry for my ramblings. I'll just go get some sleep shall i?
Merkuri
Explorer
Do your friend's parents listen to NPR? Here's a special they did on D&D's 30th anniversary that does a good job of explaining D&D as a social activity that can actually benefit kids (teamwork, puzzle solving, being social, etc.). Your friend's parents might be more likely to listen to a reputable source on the subject than just what you have to say.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1152417
And I wish I could remember where I read it (might be in that article, even, I haven't listened to it in a while), but I've heard that D&D-playing teens actually have a lower suicide rate than the average teen. And it makes sense, because kids who play D&D generally have at least one circle of friends (the D&D players) who provide an unofficial support group for any problems he might have. One of the causes for suicide is loneliness, and D&D teens are less likely to be lonely since they have a social activity they participate in regularly.
You might also want to give their parents a copy of the Player's Handbook to read. Someone here (don't remember who) once posted that their parents were anti-D&D because they thought it was about demon summoning and practicing magic. They got worried when he started playing it, but he gave them the Player's Handbook to read and when they realized there was nothing about actually practicing magic and summoning demons in there they felt better about him playing.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1152417
And I wish I could remember where I read it (might be in that article, even, I haven't listened to it in a while), but I've heard that D&D-playing teens actually have a lower suicide rate than the average teen. And it makes sense, because kids who play D&D generally have at least one circle of friends (the D&D players) who provide an unofficial support group for any problems he might have. One of the causes for suicide is loneliness, and D&D teens are less likely to be lonely since they have a social activity they participate in regularly.
You might also want to give their parents a copy of the Player's Handbook to read. Someone here (don't remember who) once posted that their parents were anti-D&D because they thought it was about demon summoning and practicing magic. They got worried when he started playing it, but he gave them the Player's Handbook to read and when they realized there was nothing about actually practicing magic and summoning demons in there they felt better about him playing.
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Darkwolf71
First Post
Concerning the 'Mazes and Monsters' case.
I just finished reading an article which takes much of it's information from a book written by the private investigator who searched for and found the missing boy that the novel and movie are supposed to be about. The investigator actually never thought that D&D was really a part of the disappearance. It was however put forward as the theory of choice in an effort to keep certain other theories out of the media as their publicity could have endangered the boy’s life if they were true.
The Disappearance of James Dallas Egbert III (Part I)
Conveniently followed by: The Disappearance of James Dallas Egbert III (Part II)
Very interesting stuff. Most importantly, and something I wasn't even aware of until this morning. Dallas Egbert did not, in fact, die during his disappearance. He was found and returned home. It wasn't until a year later that he finally committed suicide.
In the second part of the article is an editorial from issue #30 of The Dragon:
In any case, highly recommended reading for those who face the 'Suicidal D&D players' argument. Or for those who are interested in the history of our hobby.
I just finished reading an article which takes much of it's information from a book written by the private investigator who searched for and found the missing boy that the novel and movie are supposed to be about. The investigator actually never thought that D&D was really a part of the disappearance. It was however put forward as the theory of choice in an effort to keep certain other theories out of the media as their publicity could have endangered the boy’s life if they were true.
The Disappearance of James Dallas Egbert III (Part I)
Conveniently followed by: The Disappearance of James Dallas Egbert III (Part II)
Very interesting stuff. Most importantly, and something I wasn't even aware of until this morning. Dallas Egbert did not, in fact, die during his disappearance. He was found and returned home. It wasn't until a year later that he finally committed suicide.
In the second part of the article is an editorial from issue #30 of The Dragon:
Oh, how correct he was.
In any case, highly recommended reading for those who face the 'Suicidal D&D players' argument. Or for those who are interested in the history of our hobby.
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