D&D is best when the magic is high, fast and furious!

[Nine Hands]

This is interesting. I run a rather high magic game but I'm looking forward to the changes I've heard about in 3.5. My biggest problem is that SOME magic is way too powerful or it lasts literally forever. I dislike having to cast Mordenkainen's Disjunction just to level the playing field. I dislike having to spend an hour or more just preparing and casting buff spells on the NPCs, just ot make the fight more balanced.

Overall I think I do a good job of keeping the system under control. I've made some sweeping changes and I'm always looking at stuff wondering why this spell has no save, why this effect is always automatic instead of some opposed roll. In the end, the spells/effects/magic items that cause the most problems are the absolute ones. If those can be nerfed to become less absolute (at least some form of check), then the game becomes better IMHO. Also, I try to avoid the stacking wars, where abilities from the same source stack for no real apparent or balanced reason. Take for instance Spell Power from the Archmage prestige class in the FRCS. Take this twice, add in spell focus and greater spell focus. +9 to the save DC for spells of that school, +5 for ALL OTHER SPELLS!!. +5 is a huge bonus, at least for saves. This would mean that I as a GM have to give all of my NPCs some buff or magic item that gives at least a +4 to saves to compensate, even then, if the save is vs a saving throw that is the NPCs weak one, I'm never going to make the saving throw.

I seem to be ranting here....Basically high magic does not mean the spell needs to last 1 hour per level. Yes, at lower levels this is not a problem, but at higher levels it becomes a PITA. I'm gald some of the spells are being reworked since I have made these changes to the game and it seems much more balanced and fun.

 

[drnuncheon]

I love high-magic, high-power campaigns.

My biggest problem with the way D&D chooses to handle them is that it becomes about the stuff instead of about the characters. The more of a character's bonuses and abilities come from equipment, the less important the character actually wearing/weilding the nifty toys is.

That's not to say that I don't like the toys. In fact, I'd be happier if there were fewer toys, but they were more powerful. When I think about my 15th level swashbuckler, I know he's got a bunch of stuff, but the only things I remember are his rapier, Alqualindë, and his boots of striding and springing (because I always wanted a pair). If I thought about it a while I could probably remember the other stuff - I know he's got magic armor and a buckler, and a couple of rings, and magic gloves, and I think a cloak of protection - but to be honest, when you've got a bunch of stuff that just gives plusses, it gets pretty boring.

It's the same for the other characters in that game. Each has one (or two) 'signature items' that are very cool, and unique - the paladin's intelligent sword, the cleric's shield made of the frozen tears of her goddess, the sorcerer/diplomat's circlet that raises his charisma and diplomacy and lets him speak any language - and then all the items that are just there to make things more survivable.

 

[Numion]

With the Mystic Theurge and Archmage PrCs making their way in to the core books I just don't see 3.5 favoring low magic.

I never had a problem with instakill spells as such (although my players might've have had), but most of the chages to the spells seem sound to me.

 

[Gothmog]

Personally, I have never found high magic, high-powered games compelling to play in or run. Like another poster said, in high magic games, its about the equipment/spells/powers instead of about the characters. In every campaign I have played in that has been high magic (5 campaigns) the players have used their magic and items as a crutch, relying on it to the exclusion of role-playing and good problem solving to deal with siutations. In many cases, the DM has to invent magical reasons on the fly to prevent characters from circumnavigating the adventure and making sure everyone has a good time. When it becomes more about the plus a certain item gives you than character development, the game lacks any sort of plausibility, instead being an escapist power fantasy involving supermen crushing their enemies. Maybe not all high magic, high-powered games do this, but in my experience they do- and I end up quitting playing becasue they become boring. Also, since most of the characters have every toy they could ever concievably want, it becomes hard for the DM to find items to give them, and the problem is only compounded because he has to give the enemies just as many goodies to be a threat to the PCs.

I find low-magic games much more fun to DM and play in because in those games, magic actually MEANS something. Magic in a low-magic world isn't a tool, its a force that is not completely understood, and can be inherently dangerous. In a low magic game, DMs need to be careful not to give out just +1 swords, instead giving the item properties and history that make it unique and interesting. I have also found from experience that the role-playing in low magic games tends to be of much higher quality since the PCs have to rely on their wits to pull through situations, rather than their magic and gear. The characters also tend to have much more personality because we can relate to them and their feelings- they are like us, but in an alien situation. IME, high-magic characters are very hard to relate to, because very few of us are supermen, and none of us know how we would act with those sorts of powers.

 

[Psion]

I think there is a difference between high magic and abusive magic... and the latter, IMO, is not fun. Haste is a prime example. There is a marked difference in the power between a wizard with haste in his spellbook and one without it. And it gets a little boring when every wizard starts every fight with haste.

To me, lots of magic is great, but variety and surprise is important as well.

 

[Apok]

*Excellent post snipped for brevity*

I've got one word for ya: Exalted.

 

[Desdichado]

Whilst it's perfectly reasonable for people to like 1 style of gaming over another (ie high magic vs low magic) the game should not impose one style over another just because the designers deemed their preferred style better. The case in point is 3.5e is now practically forcing everyone to adopt a low magic style of game.

?!? I don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. If anything, it seems as if magic is ramping up with the new DR rules forcing you to have more toys, the Mystic Theurge prestige class, etc.

I agree that high magic style game is fun and I enjoy DMing high magic style games but I don't begrudge peoplpe who like their low magic games. Since both styles of games are popular in D&D the designers should provide the framework to use either style rather than straight jacketing the players and the DMs into 1 style.

I agree with all the words in this paragraph, but I can't for the life of me see how you think D&D is forcing folks into a low magic game. D&D is notorious amongst roleplaying and fantasy settings as being just about the highest magic system around.

I think the main reason 3.5e is moving in the direction of low magic is because many DMs don't want situations where spells can overcome barriers outside of the narrow story plot of their adventure.

Oh, c'mon. That's insulting. And ridiculous. D&D is hardly moving to a low magic paradigm anyway. Why a lot of folks I know don't like the high magic is that it is a D&D-ism that doesn't at all resemble fantasy as we know it from novels and movies.

 

[hong]

Wheres the fun for the DM when he invents a good riddle/puzzle challenge that the players need to solve in order to open the door, and then the players use spells and items to stone shape/knock/...etc their way past it simply because they can?

Screw that for a joke. I think enough at work. I play RPGs to relax, and that means not having to think.


Hong "posts without thought" Ooi

 

[Fenes 2]

Screw that for a joke. I think enough at work. I play RPGs to relax, and that means not having to think.


Hong "posts without thought" Ooi

I hate riddles with a passion... unless my PC can solve them with an Int check.

 

[DragonLancer]

I do pretty much as well to be honest.

I was using riddles/puzzles on a door as an example of how magic just gets you past things without having to work them out.

I hate it when players do that. You can try and use your brain to solve something (puzzles or investigations... whatever) but no, they spoil it by using spells or magic items when a little use of the grey matter would surfice.