D&D is best when the magic is high, fast and furious!

[barsoomcore]

Okay, four pages in and I finally check this debate out.

And I'm struck by the defensiveness of so many people. Are you really that worried about other people's opinions of your playing style?

High magic rocks. Armies of giants, flying citadels, yeah, bring it on.

Low magic is brilliant. The bad guy's got... dead bodies raised from the grave? Oh no, what'll we do!? Run!

Ubiquitous magic I don't much care for, but alright, D&D's like Burger King -- have it your way.

Barsoom was started as a NO-Magic campaign. I started with no spellcasting classes, no magic items, nada. Over the past three years, the players have discovered that magic does exist, and some have learned how to use it.

What they've also discovered are vampire goddesses creating whirling vortexes of tortured souls, entire realms constructed from the dreams of insane deities, races of undead warriors committed to the destruction of reptilian horrors, giant snakes, haunted castles, a skull that heals and djinnis, witches, demons, and sorcerers of all types.

Barsoom IS high-magic. It's also low-magic -- the party has almost no magic items at 10th level and the only spellcaster is a psion. We're having great fun and nobody is going to tell me I'm not playing "right". Not even hong.

High-magic, low-magic -- who cares? d20 is a mutable system that supports all kinds of settings and play styles. I didn't find the alterations I made to be much work, and I get to spend most of time coming up with interesting characters and fun storylines. Other people like other styles. Cool.

But I don't feel any need to "defend" my style. Even if somebody attacks it. I enjoy it -- what better defence can I provide?

 

[Desdichado]

Whether or not magic is magical to the _player_ is the player's business, I would think.

As a player, I couldn't give two hoots about magic being magical. I want that fireball to drop where I want it, and when I want it, without having to go through some precious rigmarole every time I cast the thing. I want my flaming sword to cause fire damage when I hit things, without having to worry whether my immortal soul is at stake.

As a DM, I'm well able to imagine a world in which 99% of the population views magic as something strange and mysterious, but exceptional individuals are able to understand and control its ways. PCs and (high-level) NPCs, in other words. The players may or may not share that view, but as long as they don't disrupt the game, I don't really care what their view is.

To 99% of the real-world population, pure mathematics and high-energy physics is something strange and mysterious. To a mathematician or physicist, it's just what they do. Same with magic and PCs.

Which is exactly why we have different tastes and styles, and why trying to convince someone that they are wrong in terms of style is a silly endevour.

I have no problem explaining why I like the things I do, and why I don't like the things I don't -- and I think those are interesting discussions. I don't mind, to a certain extent, defending those styles even from someone who's got a different idea.

But at the end of the day, what's right or wrong depends solely on the group and what they want.

 

[Voneth]

I think the main reason 3.5e is moving in the direction of low magic is because many DMs don't want situations where spells can overcome barriers outside of the narrow story plot of their adventure.

Amen. In the end of my last campaign, my PC druid got Wind Walk. Suddenly we could avoid the standard ambushes the GM offered every game. In fact, unless the NPCs were the movers and shakers, we could avoid all the henchmen we wanted to and move on to the plot of the story. That was a welcome relief, we had been dragged aross the continent more times than we could count to "Find X to give to Mr. Y." Now we were getting our goals accomplished and moving on to the next point within the same game session.

In three weeks, the GM closed down said game (even though he told us many times that he wanted to take us to Epic) and then started a new game where our XP is divided by 6! ... Just as I felt that we were getting somewhere and making a difference in the GM's world!

As far as getting into the GMs world, I wanted to get into parts of the world the GM never wanted to develop. He offered up the chance to play lizardmen. By the end of the day, I had created the idea of body painting in lieu of "prayer" and made a lizardman Druid. I even had a "lizard man" voice. But within months the GM spent more time making fun of my PC instead of rewarding my enthusisasm.

In the 16 levels of game we had, we visited the elven lands and human lands every game. We never went to the swampland the GM said my PC was from.

sigh

 

[hong]

Barsoom IS high-magic. It's also low-magic -- the party has almost no magic items at 10th level and the only spellcaster is a psion. We're having great fun and nobody is going to tell me I'm not playing "right". Not even hong.

Oy.

 

[barsoomcore]

Oy.

Vey.

Rabbi hong. The mind fairly reels.

 

[hong]

Vey.

Rabbi hong.

*checks in pants*

Hmm.

The mind fairly reels.

Double hmm.

 

[barsoomcore]

Once a thread degenerates into barsoomcore and hong making each other chuckle, the end cannot be far off.

Originally chuckled by hong:
*checks in pants*

Dude! Not in front of Eric's Grandma!

*pauses. checks in pants*

Hm.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Y'both know that's easily fixed now adays...

Go in, get a local, -snip snip-. Home in time for lunch.

 

[Voneth]

Re: Re

In most D&D campaigns though, nothing is explained. The DM just says you find a +1 sword and a +1 suit of chainmail and 2 potions of Cure Light wounds.

Not trying to get OT, but for me this has been my "role-playing" complaint for DnD's magic system overall. The most "metaphysical" discussions one hears in DnD is the all of the planar stuff, mostly because over the years, that aspect of DnD magic has been built up into a mythology. Otherwise, a magic spell just "works" under the guidelines given.

... On the other hand, I want to try running some stuff from Bad Axe Games, their elf book introduce the maniuplation of spell levels through "ley lines" and "nexus points." With that in mind, now DnD magic seems much more fun "role-playing" wise. The concept introduces the "metaphysics" of Feng Shui and geomancy that players can get into and use to add wonder and some "authority" to their theories ... which in turn might end up being good ideas for new magics in the game.

One of the reasons I like DnD psionic (though I am not a fan of the system as is right now) is that your PP can be stored, transfered and maintanted to do different effects. If borrow some other ideas from d20 3rd party publishing, then you can even adapt the "ley lines" idea.

And as far as magic items go, I love the "leveling items" ideas introduced in several sources. (and don't forget the old "attunement" rules in Earthdawn). Weapons can have histories before PC and then add to legend of the PC as well.

In essence, I think people want awe and metaphysics in their game. But at the heart of it, DnD was built to deliver the end effects.

Trust me, I have seen both high AND low level GMs followed the rules perfectly - as is - but without any polish or penache. Dude, the game is pretty dry, like bad Thanksgiving turkey.

The only real challenge that I can see in running a high-level game for a good GM is the additional details he needs to keep in mind.

 

[barsoomcore]

Y'both know that's easily fixed now adays...

...

...


*looks over at Eric's Grandmother all stern and everything. Holds tongue.*


Now I've got all-new ideas for "High Magic". Yeah, baby.

*runs from Grandmother's disapproving glare*