D&D is NOT Kobolds surviving Fireball

[Raith5]

I disagree on this one.
I'm not interested in arbitrary benchmarks based on previous editions.

I agree but more importantly I dont think I want to play a game where I am certain that a low level spell or strike will automatically kill a Kobold. I vote for Kobolds with varying hp. One thing I would like to see is a little mystery about monsters (something 4th ed ushered with its various types of the same monster then took away with "give everything away" nature/dungeoneering skill checks)

I like the stated design goal of D&DN that certain monsters should be threats for more than a few levels.

 

[Daven]

A 4e kobold skirmisher is not a 3.x 1st level kobold.
A 4e kobold minion is that.

 

[Someone]

Even with your double spacing,


I do not agree with your concept / idea,


Fireball damage as a "yardstick" is just meaningless, imo


I will dodge the idea totally


Is this odd spacing make posts better ?

No, but it reads curiously poetic.


Useless fireballs
Shifty kobolds laugh at them
I blame 4e

 

[Dice4Hire]

Don't try to rule lawyer your way out of this.

With your exceptions it seems to be you are trying to rules lawyer your way INTO this.

 

[Doug McCrae]

It depends. How often can fireball be cast? Are there any other limitations or drawbacks on the spell? At what level does it become available, relative to the assumed start and end points of the level track?

Kobolds have remained fairly static throughout D&D as a basic monster, so it can be reasonably assumed they are at the bottom of the monster hierarchy - half HD, minion monsters or whatever - and don't have five levels in fighter (or one level in rogue for evasion!), aren't 3HD leaders, or Tucker's Kobolds, etc. They are, in other words, suitable opponents for a level 1 party.

 

[eamon]

I like this point of view. It's kind of frustrating playing a game when you know the monsters you are facing could be of any power level, and you don't really have a way to judge. In order to make informed decisions you need to have information to base those decisions on.

I really wish I could XP you for this.

This is something that's been missing from D&D... forever? Certainly in both 3e and 4e there weren't been any good guidelines to communicate how powerful an opponent is.

 

[steeldragons]

Coming at this from a pre-3e perspective.

Ok, so assuming Fireball is a 3rd level spell, the mage gets it at 5th level.

Assuming Fireball is still a d6/level damage spell, that gets you 5d6.

Assuming maximum damage = 30hp. Saves/reflex for 1/2 = 15hp dmg.

Assuming the area of effect is 10' per level, so a 50' diameter flashbangburn.

Kobolds: 2-4 hps...maybe 5 or 7 for a chietain or something. Even saved, they are blackened burnt crispy critters.

Goblins: 4-6 hps. Even saved, they are blackened burnt crispy critters. (taste more like chicken than the distinctly cajun flavored kobolds.)

Hobgoblins: 6-9 or 10 hps. Even saved, they are blackened burnt crispy critter (taste more like turkey than chicken...but the charcoal aftertaste is nasty!)

Orcs: 8-10 hps, let's say maybe up to 12 or even 15. Even saved,...you seeing a pattern? (Naturally, they taste like pork ribs minus the BBQ sauce left on the grill for about an hour too long.)

Bugbears:15-18 or 20 hps. Saved are going to be scorched and blackened, but still standing, barely. Those that don't save,...hmm, what would blackened burnt crispy bugbear taste like?

Works for me. I have no problem with 5e using this as a benchmark.

Naturally, since most chamber we find ourselves in are not more than 50' across, there's bound to be some scorching and charring backdraft.

--SD

 

[nckestrel]

Except it doesn't.
No prior edition outside 4E, has had Kobolds be outside the power range of a Fireball.

My Basic Edition D&D, Orcs of Thar, Kobold laughs at you. Well, once he gets enough levels. Low hit die, ick!

 

[I'm A Banana]

IMC...

The "standard kobold" is a minion. One hit kills and massive numbers? Yes, that is a kobold to me. Their threat is mainly through traps.

The "standard goblin" is a standard monster.

The "standard bugbear"? Elite.

Of course, I'm generally of the belief that the 4e MMI was perhaps the worst "Monster Manual" D&D has had, but my views on what would make a good Monster Manual are a little controversial.

 

[Dausuul]

I really want to know who keeps casting fireball, it doesn't seem like it's been a good idea in any edition.

In BD&D, 1E, and 2E, fireball was the go-to combat spell, and for good reason. Back then, 5d6 damage was enough to kill all manner of enemies. Forget kobolds, you had a fair chance to take down an ogre with that, and it only got better as you leveled up. Of course, it carried certain risks, given that it expanded in confined spaces and you yourself were on the list of "stuff your fireball has a good chance to kill." But that just added a little zest to the whole business. AD&D magic didn't have all the safety features it's got now.

In 3E, hit point inflation and the rise of the Batman wizard turned fireball into a niche spell, but it still wasn't useless. When you ran up against undead, who were immune to most debuffs and save-or-lose effects but had crap hit points, fireball was a handy thing to have. It was also a great utility spell for when you needed to set something on fire from 600 feet away. And every so often you'd find a big gang of lowbie monsters just begging to be swept away by a single roaring blast.

In 4E... yeah, 4E fireball sucks. No argument there. Pick up fireburst instead and use your 5th-level daily slot on a real spell.