D&D is so METAL

[Teflon Billy]

Now keep up because here I'm talking about rappers you know like 50 cent., Jay-Z, etc. When was the last time one of them was convicted of committing a drive-by? Or sent to prison for distribution of illegal substances? Is there violence in the life of a rapper? Yep, there's violence in everyones life, but when you live in a mansion, have hired bodyguards, are doing corny commercials and make the type of money most of them do, it's hard to believe the level of violence they interact with on a daily basis is anywhere near what their music makes it seem.

Hmm...I'm kind of shocked I have to explain this, but I thought it was a common assumption that rappers--when glorifying the violence, misogyny, crime and drug use of their lives--were rapping about their lives before
"making it big".

I literally didn't think there was a person on Earth who thought that 50 Cent was out on the corner selling dimebags of rock between concerts.

I honestly thought that it was a given that these guys were glorifying their previous lives...not their current ones.

*sigh*, let me try and answer this, as I hope you are really looking for discussion of this and not just trying to goad me into an argument (which is where I really feel you want this whole discussion to go). The same way James Bond =/= "the exploits of a real secret agent"...

Where your analogy falls apart with regard to Rappers "playing a role" is that Daniel Craig doesn't endlessly go on about how his actual life as a Secret Agent for MI-5 is what makes him best-suited to play the role of James Bond.

This quote made no sense as nowhere did I claim that rap has no violence, no money and no fame. Where did I say this?

Well, I already pulled the quotes above, but I can do so again if you like...

You know you're actually talking about the lifestyle of most gangbangers, not rappers...

See right there, where you say I'm not describing Rappers? That's the beginning of it.

Then you change your tune a bit, to the following...

First off, let me clarify soemthing for you..."gansta rap" isn't a culture...it's music that's based on urban street culture. Hip hop on the other hand is considered a culture that encompases everything from be-boxing & mixing to break dancing and graffitti art.

So...I am talking about Rap, just not the Rap you are talking about...

I thought you were about to tell me your campaign was about beat-boxing, break dancing and Graffitti.

Except you then said the following...

Thus I can take the improbable depiction of street-life a lot of gangsta rappers project and toss in my own experiences to make it, IMHO, more realistic in my eyes.

So--after taking me to task for assuming that the elements of Rap you were bringing into your game were Gangsta Rap elements, and bitching to me that "that's not Rap"--you are in fact doing exactly what I said?

What is your argument man? You are all over the board here.

In the end there's alot of issues represented in Hip Hop/Rap that can serve as interesting fodder for campaign ideas if you're willing to actually understand truth vs. fiction.

Would that be Beat Boxing? or Grafitti?

Because the rest of what you are selling appears to be Gangbanger culture and not--by your own insistence--"Rap".

 

[Teflon Billy]

That's exactly what I think of 4e. 4e is Manowar: Some of the mechanics (rules mechanics/ instromental part of the music) might be okay, but the fluff (flavour material/ lyrics) I just can't take seriously.

You can play M4now4r, I'll stick to my old M3tallica albums and stuff like that.

Heh, if I have to choose between old school Metallica and Manowar...put me down for Metallica

But surely you'll agree that Album Cover is about as "D&D" as one could imagine

 

[Pants]

Well there went this thread...

And I was finally happy to find a thread not filled with anything about 4e... or rap. Guess I have too high of standards...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Heh, if I have to choose between old school Metallica and Manowar...put me down for Metallica

But surely you'll agree that Album Cover is about as "D&D" as one could imagine

Yeah, it's cool. Some of their music sounds good, too. You only have to not know what they're singing (I used to listen to them a bit when I was over at a friend's place and liked them. Then I learned enough English to hear what they're singing about...)

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Well there went this thread...

And I was finally happy to find a thread not filled with anything about 4e... or rap. Guess I have too high of standards...

Okay, let's no longer talk about 4e... or rap. Good old 3rd edition heavy metal!

 

[Imaro]

Hmm...I'm kind of shocked I have to explain this, but I thought it was a common assumption that rappers--when glorifying the violence, misogyny, crime and drug use of their lives--were rapping about their lives before
"making it big".

Oh...you mean like this...
50 cent... http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/50 cent a .fake..

I literally didn't think there was a person on Earth who thought that 50 Cent was out on the corner selling dimebags of rock between concerts.

I honestly thought that it was a given that these guys were glorifying their previous lives...not their current ones.

What I'm saying is that their rapper personas are often vast exaggerations of what they've actually been through. Furthermore in alot of more recent gangsta rap the realities of street life are often glamourized to the point approaching absurdity. This my original statement that it's akin to a "based on a true story" type movie, with all the liberties that can involve.

Where your analogy falls apart with regard to Rappers "playing a role" is that Daniel Craig doesn't endlessly go on about how his actual life as a Secret Agent for MI-5 is what makes him best-suited to play the role of James Bond.

Selling to different audiences and you yourself said the whole "keepin it real" thing is important to keep selling things. Whether it's true or false is a matter of taking the time and effort to resarch the particular artist...something very few people are going to actually do.

Well, I already pulled the quotes above, but I can do so again if you like...



See right there, where you say I'm not describing Rappers? That's the beginning of it.

I feel it's you who have it confused. You readily admit no one should believe 50 cent is selling drugs between shows or doing drive bys...yet you earlier claim shooting a gun sideways & hitting innocent bystanders is part of a rapppers lifestyle. Which one is it. My point is a rapper and a rapper's persona and music are totally different things...

How much time do they spend selling Black Lotus on street corners until the City Watch arrive?

Do the female adventurers get referred to as Bitches/Ho's?

Do they hold their crossbows sideways while threatening each other?

How many innocent bystanders get hit when they drive by an orc?

All I did was state that most rappers aren't doing these things (except #2)...and that they are more the province of the culture rappers base their music on.

Then you change your tune a bit, to the following...



So...I am talking about Rap, just not the Rap you are talking about...

I thought you were about to tell me your campaign was about beat-boxing, break dancing and Graffitti.

Except you then said the following...



So--after taking me to task for assuming that the elements of Rap you were bringing into your game were Gangsta Rap elements, and bitching to me that "that's not Rap"--you are in fact doing exactly what I said?

What is your argument man? You are all over the board here.

You were correct in assuming I was talking about elements of gangsta rap...which are essentially exaggerated elements of street life. Where I differentiated, and it may have been a misunderstanding on my part about what you were saying was the difference between the actual rappers and what they do vs. their music and what it's about. My game elements are from their music and personas...not from actual rappers and their real lives. That's all I'm saying.

Would that be Beat Boxing? or Grafitti?

Because the rest of what you are selling appears to be Gangbanger culture and not--by your own insistence--"Rap".

Gangsta rap is based on gangbanger culture...D&D is such a high powered game at mid to high levels it doesn't really do gritty urban realistic very well, but it does do gangsta rap exaggeration of streetlife pretty well. I mean you really can take 20 arrows at a cerain level and keep coming...you can annihilate the city guard special task force at a certain level all by yourself, etc.

I will bow out on this discussion now, as I feel it has hijacked the thread long enough. I really didn't expect it to go on for this long, and I feel I may have misunderstood Teflon Billy or he may have misunderstood me. In either case I don't think much more will be accomplished by further discussion of the topic, so I will refrain from discussing rap in this thread.

 

[Gentlegamer]

As a young boy chasing dragons
with your wooden sword so mighty
you're St. George or your David
and you always killed the beast . . .

 

[Thurbane]

Heh, if I have to choose between old school Metallica and Manowar...put me down for Metallica

But surely you'll agree that Album Cover is about as "D&D" as one could imagine

I dunno, some of the Blind Guardian and Savatage album covers would come pretty close.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I dunno, some of the Blind Guardian and Savatage album covers would come pretty close.

Absolutely. Especially BG, having always had a strong fantasy theme (after all, they did a whole album on tolkien's Silmarillion. Nightfall in Middle Earth's still one of my all-time favourite albums. They even made a song about Raistlin).

 

[S'mon]

I find it...questionable...that your claim this culture that places so much emphasis on being "real" is, in fact, completely fake.

Yeah, round near where I live (South London) there are pretty regular news stories about celebrity rappers going down for shooting people - rivals, each other, etc. So Solid Crew in particular are probably more famous for their criminal activity than their music. But my point was about how hip-hop is presented in the mass market, ie by MTV. It's basically all gangsta rap these days, and that's been the case now for a long time.