D&D 5E D&D Lied To Me. Gp vs Sp

mellored

Legend
The Silver to Gold ratio in most medieval times was 12 to 1, so 10 to 1 was a fair rounded estimate. It's gone quite skewed now as the end of using silver in the photography industry (with the rise of digital) crashed the silver market, while gold speculation artificially grew the gold market.
There really isn't photography medieval time.

Silverware was though. As silver has no taste and won't give you splinters.

Also there are monster that are weak to silver. And the whole vampires don't have reflections is because mirrors were pure silver and wouldn't reflect evil.

And yea, gold is artificially up.
 

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Longspeak

Adventurer
As far as actual buying power, I've been running games with 1 gp = 100 USD so my players here get a decent grip on it.
I took it a bit further. I tell my players to imagine a gold piece as a $100 bill... in 1970.

1GP is enough to live on for a week, pretty comfortably in my games.

I keep the prices for most magics as they are, but I let the prices for goods and services needed in every day things low, to foster an idea that magic services and gear is rare and valuable.

Honestly... I dunno if it work as well as I'd hoped, and the Magic is staying pretty rare.
 

GrimCo

Adventurer
D&D's monetary system never did make any sense.

On the other hand, it has Dragons. Dragons like massive hoards of gold coinage. So they loot and take those coins out of circulation. In monetary policy sense, all dragons are good, since they act as ant inflation measure. On the other hand, Adventurers with their shenanigans, are ones that produce inflation by pumping money into system.

Jokes aside, there is solid supplement Grain into gold that deals with faults of economy as presented in fantasy ttrpgs. It's interesting read.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
I think that's more equivalent to armor for nobles.

Good armor unadorned was apparently more likee buying a car.

Cities had armories full of the stuff and they had these water powered foundaries.

It was expensive but not supercar type expensive outside armor for the king and other nobles.
It could be, but there were gameplay benefits fr campaign health. Those old high GP costs for top end armor provided significant incentive to go out & adventure while making getting it eventually a big deal both from cost & it's distinction*
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That was from ad&d2e phb pg 92 but I wouldn't be surprised if @Lanefan or someone can cite an even higher cost in a different one of the old editions. The difference between full & field plate was one ac and well... pretty much exactly that bolded bit
Field plate armor: This is the most com-
mon version of full plate armor, consisting of
shaped and fitted metal plates riveted and
interlocked to cover the entire body. It includes
gauntlets, boots, and a visored helmet. A thick
layer of padding must be worn underneath.
However, the weight of the suit is well-distrib-
uted over the whole body. Such armor ham-
pers movement only slightly. Aside from its
expense, the main disadvantages are the lack
of ventilation and the time required to put it on
and take it off (see the “Getting Into and Out of
Armor” section). Each suit of field plate must
be individually fitted to its owner by a master
armorer, although captured pieces can be
resized to fit the new owner (unless such is
patently absurd, such as a human trying to
resize a halfling’s armor).
Full Plate: This is the impressive, high
Gothic-style armor of the Late Middle Ages
and Renaissance. It is perfectly forged and fit-
ted. All the plates are interlocking and carefully
angled to deflect blows. The surfaces are nor-
mally highly ornamented with etching and
inlaid metals. Each suit must be carefully cus-
tom-fitted to the owner and there is only a
20% chance that a captured suit can be refit-
ted to a new owner of approximately the
same size. The metal plates are backed by
padding and chain mail. The weight is well-
distributed. The armor is hot, slow to don, and
extremely expensive. Due to these factors, it
tends to be used more for parades and tri-
umphs than actual combat.



Hide: This is armor prepared from the extremely thick hide
of a creature (such as an elephant) or from multiple layers of
regular leather. It is stiff and hard to move in.
Leather: This armor is made of leather hardened in boiling
oil and then shaped into breastplate and shoulder protectors.
The remainder of the suit is fashioned from more flexible,
somewhat softer materials.
Padded: This is the simplest type of armor, fashioned from
quilted layers of cloth and batting. It tends to get hot and after
a time becomes foul with sweat, grime, lice, and fleas.
Plate mail: This armor is a combination of chain or brigan-
dine with metal plates (cuirass, epaulettes, elbow guards,
gauntlets, tassets, and greaves) covering vital areas. The
weight is distributed over the whole body and the whole thing
is held together by buckles and straps. This is the most com-
mon form of heavy armor.
Ring mail: This armor is an early (and less effective) form
of chain mail in which metal rings are sewn directly to a
leather backing instead of being interlaced. (Historians still
debate whether this armor ever existed.)
Scale mail: This is a coat and leggings (and perhaps a
separate skirt) of leather covered with overlapping pieces of
metal, much like the scales of a fish.
Shields: All shields improve a character’s Armor Class by 1 or
more against a specified number of attacks. A shield is useful
only to protect the front and flanks of the user. Attacks from the
rear or rear flanks cannot be blocked by a shield (exception: a
shield slung across the back does help defend against rear
attacks). The reference to the size of the shield is relative to the
size of the character. Thus, a human’s small shield would have all
the effects of a medium shield when used by a gnome.
A buckler (or target) is a very small shield that fastens on the
forearm. It can be worn by crossbowmen and archers with no
hindrance. Its small size enables it to protect against only one
attack per melee round (of the user’s choice), improving the
character’s Armor Class by 1 against that attack.
A small shield is carried on the forearm and gripped with the
hand. Its light weight permits the user to carry other items in that
hand (although he cannot use weapons). It can be used to
protect against two frontal attacks of the user’s choice.
The medium shield is carried in the same manner as the
small shield. Its weight prevents the character from using his
shield hand for other purposes. With a medium shield, a char-
acter can protect against any frontal or flank attacks.
The body shield is a massive shield reaching nearly from chin
to toe. It must be firmly fastened to the forearm and the shield
hand must grip it at all times. It provides a great deal of protection,
improving the Armor Class of the character by 1 against melee
attacks and by 2 against missile attacks, for attacks from the front
or front flank sides. It is very heavy; the DM may wish to use the
optional encumbrance system if he allows this shield.
Splint Mail: The existence of this armor has been ques-
tioned. It is claimed that the armor is made of narrow vertical
strips riveted to a backing of leather and cloth padding. Since
this is not flexible, the joints are protected by chain mail.
Studded leather: This armor is made from leather (not
hardened as with normal leather armor) reinforced with close-
set metal rivets. In some ways it is very similar to brigandine,
although the spacing between each metal piece is greater.
In addition to the types of armor listed above, your DM may
have special armors prepared from rare or exotic materials. Since
it is highly unlikely that your character can afford these at the start,
the DM will tell you when you need to know about such items.
That 20% chance even meant that opponents could wear it without making it an automatic score in terms of armor upgrades & resale value.

* The system was very different when it came to skills & social interactions
 

Osgood

Hero
A few years ago I came acrost an article that discussed the differences in coin sizes based on the density of the of the metal--basically an ounce of silver and an ounce of gold aren't the same dimensions (assuming 50 coins to the pound). So it's not an apples to apples comparison between silver, gold, etc.

I can't locate the article at the moment, but I did make a note of the approximate equivalent in US coins, and how many loose (as in not neatly stacked) would fill a cubic foot in say a dragon's hoard (in round numbers):
  • CP: Half dollar -- about 8,750 (175 lbs.) per cubit foot
  • SP: Gold dollar -- 10,000 (200 lbs.)
  • EP: Nickel -- 11,500 (230 lbs.)
  • GP: Penny -- 13,500 (270 lbs.)
  • PP: Dime -- 14,250 (285 lbs.)
 

Meech17

WotC President Runner-Up.
D&D economics as a whole tend to fall apart under the gentlest of scrutiny. It's something I've kind of struggled with in my games.

Like Page 158 of the 5e PHB suggests a night in a poor, a modest, or a comfortable inn will run you 1sp, 5sp, or 8sp respectively. Meals in the same categories are 6cp, 3sp, and 5sp respectively. A comfortable meal costs the same as a modest inn room?

Looking near me in the Metro Detroit area you can get a night in a Motel 6 for about $60. Holiday Inn will run you closer to $115. The Marriott nearest me is $200. Even with the current inflated prices of our world, $115 would purchase me a meal much nicer than what I'd consider comfortable..

I know we can't really compare the apples of Medieval Fantasy Europe-but-not-Europe to the oranges of the modern day real world.. But even still. If I'm staying in $100 hotel rooms, I'm not going out and buying $100 dinners.
 

Celebrim

Legend
D&D economics as a whole tend to fall apart under the gentlest of scrutiny. It's something I've kind of struggled with in my games.

D&D price lists (and RPG price lists in general) are so dysfunctional it makes me want to scream. The are invariably not treated as if they were rule production and as if prices don't matter and crafting doesn't matter and economics don't matter, and that's generally true if you stay on linear quests in a dungeon where people act like say Indiana Jones and rob tombs like an adventurer but don't do anything with the money.

But yeah, even the slightest deviation from the game expectations makes the dysfunctionality of the economics a problem.

I invariably have to roll my own prices in pretty much any game I run. The work effort of that despite having paid some professional for source material makes me rather irritated.
 

Meech17

WotC President Runner-Up.
D&D price lists (and RPG price lists in general) are so dysfunctional it makes me want to scream. The are invariably not treated as if they were rule production and as if prices don't matter and crafting doesn't matter and economics don't matter, and that's generally true if you stay on linear quests in a dungeon where people act like say Indiana Jones and rob tombs like an adventurer but don't do anything with the money.

But yeah, even the slightest deviation from the game expectations makes the dysfunctionality of the economics a problem.

I invariably have to roll my own prices in pretty much any game I run. The work effort of that despite having paid some professional for source material makes me rather irritated.
Yeah.. I just try and make it make kind of sense. I've tried to scale my economies down a little so I treat 1cp as roughly equivalent to 1usd. Generally speaking you can't buy much for less than a buck. 1sp will get you a meal, 1gp will get you a room for the night.

The biggest problem I've run into was arms and armor. These are things that craftsmen have devoted hours into making. I have no idea how efficiently a blacksmith works. Could a smith make a sword in a day? Three days? Say with an apprentice the smith makes three swords a week. How much would he have to sell them at to make ends meet? The PHB says a long sword costs 15gp.. So with my conversion that's $1500? If he's making $4500/week that's a pretty great living. But is he selling three swords a week? Probably not.. What does the village of Fallkirk need a dozen swords a month for? In the first year all the villagers of fighting age are equipped.. and likely have a back-up sword too! He probably makes half a dozen swords a year and spends most of his time making nails and horse shoes and door hinges right?

When the ranger wants to buy a suit of studded leather armor who does he go see? The leatherworker or the smith? The PHB says that costs 45gp, and a regular suit of leather armor is only 10gp. I guess I buy that. The smith would have to craft the dozens of metal plates and rivets and then spend the time to actually assemble it. That 10gp is also retail cost. Perhaps the smith has a deal with the leatherworker and can source the armor for a lower cost. So if the ranger opts to have his leather armor studded, would it just be 35gp to do the work? Maybe a week's labor?

I don't know.. I guess I get why they didn't devote a lot of time into this work. It would take a lot of effort and thought for something that some groups probably don't mess with at all.
 

LordBP

Explorer
Yeah.. I just try and make it make kind of sense. I've tried to scale my economies down a little so I treat 1cp as roughly equivalent to 1usd. Generally speaking you can't buy much for less than a buck. 1sp will get you a meal, 1gp will get you a room for the night.

The biggest problem I've run into was arms and armor. These are things that craftsmen have devoted hours into making. I have no idea how efficiently a blacksmith works. Could a smith make a sword in a day? Three days? Say with an apprentice the smith makes three swords a week. How much would he have to sell them at to make ends meet? The PHB says a long sword costs 15gp.. So with my conversion that's $1500? If he's making $4500/week that's a pretty great living. But is he selling three swords a week? Probably not.. What does the village of Fallkirk need a dozen swords a month for? In the first year all the villagers of fighting age are equipped.. and likely have a back-up sword too! He probably makes half a dozen swords a year and spends most of his time making nails and horse shoes and door hinges right?

When the ranger wants to buy a suit of studded leather armor who does he go see? The leatherworker or the smith? The PHB says that costs 45gp, and a regular suit of leather armor is only 10gp. I guess I buy that. The smith would have to craft the dozens of metal plates and rivets and then spend the time to actually assemble it. That 10gp is also retail cost. Perhaps the smith has a deal with the leatherworker and can source the armor for a lower cost. So if the ranger opts to have his leather armor studded, would it just be 35gp to do the work? Maybe a week's labor?

I don't know.. I guess I get why they didn't devote a lot of time into this work. It would take a lot of effort and thought for something that some groups probably don't mess with at all.
I think you are trying to make smiths into something like a current day store.

Olden days, you paid for the project before they would even start on it if it was something that they didn't sell constantly.

Depending on time frame (early Medieval vs mid Medieval vs late Medieval vs Renaissance), the sword could be made in a day to a few days assuming they had enough material to forge with. The later the time period, the easier it gets as they get to steel stock at some point which would speed up the forging immensely.
 

I don't use real-world ratios for value and availability. In my campaign, precious metals are inherently magic, and can be used to power magics that have a GP value, even if you don't have the "object" that is valued at that amount. This means there is an in-world value that is reliable and less subject to inflation. It's part of reality.
If a spell requires a gem focus worth 50gp, then having 50gp on your person, or 500sp on you, works just as well.

Also, the currency ratios match the relative power and weight ratios. Standard coins have metal mass equal to 1/50th of a pound.
  • 50 gold coins is 1 lb.
  • 50 silver coins is 1 lb.
  • A 10 lb. platinum trade bar is worth 1,000 gp.
But I do try to compare spending power to the real world to set expectations.
  • 1gp is about $100 in US Currency, 1sp is $10, and 1cp is $1.
  • If an inn costs 2gp, consider it the equivalent of a $200/night hotel room.
  • Dinner costs 7 silver? That's a $70 dinner.
  • Tipping a gold piece for information is like handing over a $100 bill.
It works for my table.
 

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