D&D 5E D&D Lied To Me. Gp vs Sp

[Mirrorrorrim]

I was just thinking about DnD coinage again after seeing this post and it reminded me of the forgotten middle child of dnd currency, the electrum piece. I had to look it up to find out how much it was worth because it made me think that I'd been doing conversion incorrectly but it's just a dnd version of the 50 cent piece.

In my campaign, the weight of every coin being 1/50th of a pound is taken seriously by the bankers/moneylenders. Heavier metals are smaller coins. In fact, "coin" can be considered a unit of measurement, which is 1/50th of a pound.

1cp = $1 (a 1lb. copper trade bar = $50)
1sp = $10 (a 1lb. silver trade bar = $500)
1ep = $50 (a 1lb. electrum trade bar = $2,500)
1gp = $100 (a 1lb. gold trade bar = $5,000)
1pp = $1,000 (a 1lb. platinum trade bar = $50,000)

Once that value and weight is determined to be the baseline, alternative currencies with different weights can be used. If a nation mints a gold coin that is twice has heavy, it is worth twice as much (2gp).

(Edit: You made me think of how electrum fit into my campaign and math, so this started as an electrum response that grew to something more detailed.)

 

[Lanefan]

It could be, but there were gameplay benefits fr campaign health. Those old high GP costs for top end armor provided significant incentive to go out & adventure while making getting it eventually a big deal both from cost & it's distinction*
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That was from ad&d2e phb pg 92 but I wouldn't be surprised if @Lanefan or someone can cite an even higher cost in a different one of the old editions. The difference between full & field plate was one ac and well... pretty much exactly that bolded bit

You called?

Personally, I did away with full plate ages ago; in my game plate mail costs 400 and field plate goes for 4000+ mostly because field plate has to a) be made bespoke to the intended wearer and b) is usually at least a bit decoarated or emblazoned.

I don't remember if those prices agree with RAW 1e as I haven't looked at the PH/UA price lists in decades.

 

[MGibster]

As a player, I wouldn't be excited to get trinkets worth copper and silver. Even if value is an illusion in a game, we are still modern humans looting dungeons hoping for cool loot.

As a player, I don't get particularly excited when my character is bedazzled by golden showers of coins and sparkling gems. (Not to self: Reconsider phrasing before submitting for publication.) There just comes a point where I really can't buy anything nicer for my characters and the game doesn't really offer a lot of support for building strongholds, managing guilds, or governing. Plus it's an adventure game and I don't really want to do any of that stuff anyway.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Yeah.. I just try and make it make kind of sense. I've tried to scale my economies down a little so I treat 1cp as roughly equivalent to 1usd. Generally speaking you can't buy much for less than a buck. 1sp will get you a meal, 1gp will get you a room for the night.

The biggest problem I've run into was arms and armor. These are things that craftsmen have devoted hours into making. I have no idea how efficiently a blacksmith works. Could a smith make a sword in a day? Three days? Say with an apprentice the smith makes three swords a week. How much would he have to sell them at to make ends meet? The PHB says a long sword costs 15gp.. So with my conversion that's $1500? If he's making $4500/week that's a pretty great living. But is he selling three swords a week? Probably not.. What does the village of Fallkirk need a dozen swords a month for? In the first year all the villagers of fighting age are equipped.. and likely have a back-up sword too! He probably makes half a dozen swords a year and spends most of his time making nails and horse shoes and door hinges right?

When the ranger wants to buy a suit of studded leather armor who does he go see? The leatherworker or the smith? The PHB says that costs 45gp, and a regular suit of leather armor is only 10gp. I guess I buy that. The smith would have to craft the dozens of metal plates and rivets and then spend the time to actually assemble it. That 10gp is also retail cost. Perhaps the smith has a deal with the leatherworker and can source the armor for a lower cost. So if the ranger opts to have his leather armor studded, would it just be 35gp to do the work? Maybe a week's labor?

I don't know.. I guess I get why they didn't devote a lot of time into this work. It would take a lot of effort and thought for something that some groups probably don't mess with at all.

Based on Forged in Fire, it takes about three to four days to make a sword - three if it's not too big and no errors happen at any point. If you were taking commissions, you'd probably say "five days" so you aren't rushed.

So a professional swordsmith (which is a different job than a village blacksmith, who mostly makes nails and horseshoes) would need to sell a sword each week to live comfortably, which sounds about right. If he lives in a big enough city a really good swordsmith could specialize in rapiers and live quite a bit better.

Armor is probably a bit like cars in terms of how big of an expense it is - studded leather needing two craftmen is why iit cost so much, and riding into town in full plate is like rolling up to the restaurant in a Ferrari - you be flexing.

(Which is one of the reasons it annoys me when npcs don't take mid-level pc's seriously. This dude just rolled into town in a Ferrari with a 100mm cannon on top, stepped out in an Armani suit holding a gilded M16 and has a literal angel backing him up - he's not some hobo who probably can't afford a donut. And he's definitely not someone you want to mess around with.)

 

[tetrasodium]

.

(Which is one of the reasons it annoys me when npcs don't take mid-level pc's seriously. This dude just rolled into town in a Ferrari with a 100mm cannon on top, stepped out in an Armani suit holding a gilded M16 and has a literal angel backing him up - he's not some hobo who probably can't afford a donut. And he's definitely not someone you want to mess around with.)

He is however someone with ties to and obligations within the world. It's been a few editions since PCs had any such thing

 

[jmartkdr2]

He is however someone with ties to and obligations within the world. It's been a few editions since PCs had any such thing

It’s been that way in every edition I’ve played, though only 5e enforced it.

 

[tetrasodium]

It’s been that way in every edition I’ve played, though only 5e enforced it.

Not to the degree it currently is thanks to designing for an expected no feats no magic items plus sleep anywhere and be peachy plus no expected need for consumable magic items. In 4e some of those were different and it was 4e. 3.x expected regular magic item churn with both permanent weapons and armor as well as consumables like wands scrolls and potions plus with things like long term care recovery rates and a sheet that eventually had spots for treasure stored off your person players had a lot of reasons to be connected and obligated. 2e and earlier expecteduch of the same to different degrees but was such a different system that it's hard to make easy comparisons plus mostly had expected investments into strongholds and followers.

It's only 5e they allows PCs to exist as as some kind of outsider aberration with no ties needs or obligations to the world. Weirdly it's also the first that tried to give PCs push button abilities that force the world alone to act as if they do despite their state as aberrations in addition to only one side of a narrative push type claim (bifts without the cut other side).

Not sure what you mean by "enforced it" if you weren't talking about the kinds of differences I noted , but those differences have significant impact on why they world generally shouldn't and can't treat PCs with the weight you described earlier in post 84.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

As far as actual buying power, I've been running games with 1 gp = 100 USD so my players here get a decent grip on it.

A modest lifestyle at 1 gp per day would be 100 USD per day or about 35000 per year, which while well below the national average, is close to fit the bill (no pun intended).

A comfortable lifestyle at 2 gp per day would be twice that, or about 70000 per year, well above the national average and certainly "comfortable".

At 100 USD per gold piece, silver is worth 10 USD and copper 1 USD. You want to buy a meal of modest quality? 5 cp or so. You want a "high-end, top of the line" suit of armor (plate), at 1500 gp would equal about 150000 USD by comparison, enough for a very nice sports car, truck, or SUV. I'm not talking an exotic sports car, which would easily be double that or more, of course.

Room at an inn? 5 sp for modest would be 50 USD, seems about right for most road-side inns, etc.

More or less, it works well enough IME.

I do it exactly the same way. It makes most of the numbers in the books make the most sense with 1 gp = $100 USD.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

As noted by many posters already, gold being about ten times as valuable as silver is pretty historically accurate.

But the biggest issue with D&D money, is how little value any of these precious metals have. A sword literally costs its weight in silver! I always revalue the money, dividing all prices by ten. That produces way more reasonable prices.

 

[Meech17]

I was just thinking about DnD coinage again after seeing this post and it reminded me of the forgotten middle child of dnd currency, the electrum piece. I had to look it up to find out how much it was worth because it made me think that I'd been doing conversion incorrectly but it's just a dnd version of the 50 cent piece.

I don't know where I saw it at.. Probably reddit but I like the idea of making Electrum a special rare currency. It's actually a gold and silver alloy that, like you said acts as a middle piece in the currency chain.

I instead treat it as a very rare and magically imbued alloy. Electrum pieces are hard to come by, and usually traded amongst wizards. They could be used to purchase magic items, or spell services. Like the coins in John Wick or something.