D&D (2024) D&D Marilith Is Far More Bestial In 2025

The new 2025 Monster Manual has all-new art, and one major change is the depiction of the marilith. Up until now, the marilith has been depicted as a six-armed humanish female from the waist up; while in the 2025 book, the picture is far more bestial in nature.

Not only is the imagery more demonic, it also features the creature in action, simultaneously beheading, stabbing, and entwining its foes with its six arms and snake-like tail.

Left 2025 Marilith / Right 2014 Marilith​

 

[Dire Bare]

This is honestly the ONLY thing that I'm actually arguing for.

It really doesn't come across that way.

 

[Hussar]

It really doesn't come across that way.

I can only keep repeating the same thing so many times.

To be honest, before this thread it never occurred to me that anyone would think demons have a biology. That demon is some sort of species. It just never occurred to me.

But the whole reason I wound up going down the biology rabbit hole is because others were arguing that demons MUST BE mono gendered. That it was their biological niche that this demon is always female and that demon is always male.

That’s what I’ve been arguing against.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I can only keep repeating the same thing so many times.

To be honest, before this thread it never occurred to me that anyone would think demons have a biology. That demon is some sort of species. It just never occurred to me.

But the whole reason I wound up going down the biology rabbit hole is because others were arguing that demons MUST BE mono gendered. That it was their biological niche that this demon is always female and that demon is always male.

That’s what I’ve been arguing against.

You've spent most of your time arguing against the setting that fleshed out the Planes the most. The setting where it stated that not only do Demons have a biology, but that they also have multiple genders and that Demon genders (and sexes) are somewhat fluid.

 

[pemerton]

before this thread it never occurred to me that anyone would think demons have a biology. That demon is some sort of species. It just never occurred to me.

You've spent most of your time arguing against the setting that fleshed out the Planes the most. The setting where it stated that not only do Demons have a biology, but that they also have multiple genders and that Demon genders (and sexes) are somewhat fluid

The fact that a lot of books were published for Planescape doesn't make that stuff more plausible, more interesting o more authoritative.

In this thread, @Maxperson has asserted that the Cathezar, from Bastion of Broken Souls, was conceived and born via a biological process. I've run that module (adapted to RM), and it never occurred to me that the Cathezar - half demon, half devil - who is described as being "spawned" from an "unholy union", was the result of a fundamentally biological process.

 

[Dire Bare]

The fact that a lot of books were published for Planescape doesn't make that stuff more plausible, more interesting o more authoritative.

In this thread, @Maxperson has asserted that the Cathezar, from Bastion of Broken Souls, was conceived and born via a biological process. I've run that module (adapted to RM), and it never occurred to me that the Cathezar - half demon, half devil - who is described as being "spawned" from an "unholy union", was the result of a fundamentally biological process.

True, lore from Planescape is not necessarily more plausible, interesting, or authoritative then lore from other D&D books. But neither is it less so.

Saying, "I don't care for Planescape lore." is different from insisting "Planescape lore isn't core and therefore shouldn't count in this discussion." Liking or not liking various lore bits from the breadth of D&D's history is fine, of course. But when you ask for canonical sources, and folks provide them, you can't just dismiss them because they came from a Planescape book. Especially, as the designer intent was not that Planescape was somehow separate from the core D&D settings at the time, and much of that lore has become 4th Edition and 5th Edition lore as well.

Mariliths being mono-gendered as female is Planescape lore! I'm ditching it, even though I lurve Planescape, because it's a good change, IMO. Demons being all sorts of weird and actually having physiological traits and needs I'm keeping, because I think that's cool too.

Folks who think demons having kids is dumb or nonsensical . . . great! Then that's how it works in your games!

But . . . the Cathezar being "spawned" from the "union" of a demon and a devil . . . a sexual union resulting in a child didn't even cross your mind? Okay.

 

[SkidAce]

...
But . . . the Cathezar being "spawned" from the "union" of a demon and a devil . . . a sexual union resulting in a child didn't even cross your mind? Okay.

 

[SkidAce]

Let me know if you dont get the joke...

 

[Alzrius]

Let me know if you dont get the joke...

How could anyone not get that? It's a well-known reference to the union that results in pandas:

 

[SkidAce]

How could anyone not get that? It's a well-known reference to the union that results in pandas:

Well done.

 

[pemerton]

the Cathezar being "spawned" from the "union" of a demon and a devil . . . a sexual union resulting in a child didn't even cross your mind? Okay.

Do Kytons (chain devils) have sex organs? What about Type V demons? Are we supposed to imagine the Cathezar gestating? And was she laid as an egg, or born live? Was she born with her chains, or did she have to find them somewhere?

As I posted upthread, the whole thing doesn't support reasoning. The idea of the spawn of an unholy union is a trope, not an invitation to speculate about the process.

Mariliths being mono-gendered as female is Planescape lore!

It predates Planescape: Eldritch Wizardry and the AD&D MM both describe Type V demons as female.

And according to another poster, Mariliths are not mono-gendered in Planescape:

The setting where it stated that not only do Demons have a biology, but that they also have multiple genders and that Demon genders (and sexes) are somewhat fluid.