D&D Minis: What's missing most?

[Kae'Yoss]

-Irregardless of the argument over which interpretation is used, the bottom line is that it boils down to a marketing ploy designed go beyond making a simple profit. Its a method designed to shamelessly bilk as much cash out of customers as possible.

reference: bilk
Main Entry: 1bilk
Pronunciation: 'bilk
Function: transitive verb
-to cheat out of something valuable : DEFRAUD b :

Ah, we're playing the "I'm smart because I can paste stuff from a dictionary" game. I can play that, too.

Main Entry: de·fa·ma·tion
Pronunciation: "de-f&-'mA-sh&n
Function: noun
1 : communication to third parties of false statements about a person that injure the reputation of or deter others from associating with that person

That's what you're doing here. You're showing off by posting the definition of bilk, which means, as you pasted, cheating some one out of something valuable, but they don't cheat anyone. To cheat means to swindle, to mislead, to fool. But they don't do that. All the information about what you get when you buy DDM products is readily available. In fact, they go out of their way to make it easier for us by making the distribution in cases only partly random, and by making sure that a booster contains a good mix of weaker and more powerful pieces, by heightening the chance that you get certain desirable kinds of miniatures, like large uncommons and commanders.

Bottom line is: You say they cheat us, they don't, you defame them.


If you don't want to buy the minis, fine, don't do it. But don't come here, talk rubbish and play the wisecracker. Keep your conspiracy therories to yourself.

 

[boolean]

If I buy two cases (and assume perfect distribution) I'll get:

1 Elminster of Shadowdale (a rare)
3 Half-Orc Paladins (an uncommon)
8 Orc Skeletons (a common)

The same ratio applies to every rare/uncommon/common.

Looking at it as a per set ratio, yes 24 out of 60 minis are rare.

Looking at it as a per booster or per case ratio, 1 out of 8 minis are rare.

 

[Glyfair]

It is worth noting at this point that MageKnight (initial release) had 16 rares.

One problem: You only got one every SIX PACKS!

Note quite accurate. They only had 16 uniques (which all were rare). Some of the *** figures were also rare (ok, there was a bit more granularity of MK rarity, with 6 different levels in the early releases). It's just the uniques that were chased after, typically. So, when MK players would talk about rares, they really meant uniques, because the ignored the rare non-uniques.

 

[was]

Ah, we're playing the "I'm smart because I can paste stuff from a dictionary" game. I can play that, too.

First of all, you pointed out in your previous post that the I was in error because I misinterpreted a word. I included those definitions for two reasons.
A.) I wanted to make sure I knew what I was talking about.
B.) I wanted to make sure you knew where I was coming from.
These clarifications seemed especially important to me in light of the fact that I was trying to discuss a subject with someone from another country. Especially one where English is not the native tongue. I know quite well what the term 'bilk' means. It's used quite often around here. However, I could not simply assume that you were familiar with it.

Second, I am quite aware from my graduate school law classes, taken farther back then I care to remember, what defamation is. At least its English definition as defined by American law. I must admit to a lack of knowledge in its applications in German law.
A.) I had no direct intent to injure. If you read my last post in its entirety, you'll notice that I stated that I still buy some of their miniatures. I just don't buy them in packs. In addition, I never advocated that anyone stop buying all of their products. I stated that I don't appreciate the way they sell their miniatures and yes, I do feel cheated by it.
B.) I was expressing an opinion, which is what these boards are supposed to be about. If I feel that their marketing methods are unfair to loyal customers, then I'm going to say it.
C.) In the U.S., it doesn't supersede the First Amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech , or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
D.) Seeing as these boards are hosted in a foreign country, neither the American or German definitions matter here. We'd have to reference English law.

Third, you have no idea who I am, or anything about my character. Yet you have deliberately attacked my character with false accusations several times. Your postings have been rife with sarcasm and condescension. If anyone is defaming or slandering in these postings, it is you.

Finally, I am too *bleeping* old to feel the need to "show off" to you or anyone else, nor do I feel any need to rise to your baiting commentary. You want to provoke an argument, then look elsewhere.

 

[Green Knight]

Like these perhaps....

http://paizo.com/store/games/miniatures/tradableMiniaturesGames/dnd/critterPacks

Interesting link, but http://www.popularcollections.com is a better deal. Just compare the "Age of Men Critter Pack" to what you can get from Popular Collections.

The Age of Men Critter Pack comes with 1x Man-At-Arms, 1x Carrion Tribe Barbarian, 1x Dark Traveler, 1x Sword of Glory, and 1x City Guard, all for $6.

But at Popular Collections, for $5.96, you can get 3x Man-At-Arms, 3x Carrion Tribe Barbarian, 1x Dark Traveler, 2x Sword of Glory, and 3x City Guard. An extra seven figures for slightly less.

As for what I'd like to see, more right-handed male Paladins (A bit of an annoyance that the few male Paladins they have are nearly all left-handed). I'd also like to see mounted and foot versions of the same character. My IDEAL would be as follows. Three figures like so:

1) Male Human Paladin of Torm wielding a longsword in his right hand and a large steel shield in his left hand, mounted on a barded Dire Lion.

2) The same as above, except the Paladin's on foot.

3) Same as #1, except it's the barded Dire Lion by itself, without its rider.

That, IMO, would be pretty cool. At the LEAST, though, I'd like to see several examples of #1 and #2 (#3's a nice option, but mostly unnecessary). I'd LOVE to see future mounted figures have foot variants of the riders, as well.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

1) Male Human Paladin of Torm wielding a longsword in his right hand and a large steel shield in his left hand, mounted on a barded Dire Lion.

Every Paladin of Torm worth his salt uses the Greatsword

That, IMO, would be pretty cool. At the LEAST, though, I'd like to see several examples of #1 and #2 (#3's a nice option, but mostly unnecessary). I'd LOVE to see future mounted figures have foot variants of the riders, as well.

Good Idea. The mounted miniature would probably be rare, while the others could pass off as uncommons.

I have a similar idea I keep bringin up (in the hopes they pick it up): Several miniatures that are connected. Guardsmen are a good example: You'd have a common foot-soldier, an uncommon sergeant, and a rare commander. They would look similar, but the higher-ranking (and rarer) miniatures would have more elaborate equipment. Besides having an army in uniform that way, you could use them to represent the same character in lower-, mid- and high-level play.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Especially one where English is not the native tongue. I know quite well what the term 'bilk' means. It's used quite often around here. However, I could not simply assume that you were familiar with it.

There are a couple of online dictionaries, you know.

A.) I had no direct intent to injure.

Sure thing. I also call people and companies liars, cheats and the like, and say things about them that aren't true, because I think that's fun. Hey people, those guys from Alderac just came over to my house, set it on fire and ate my cate, only because I didn't buy their newest Rokugan supplement. Bwahaha, the fun.

B.) I was expressing an opinion, which is what these boards are supposed to be about.

So if I say that you are probably a rapist and slaver, that's okay, because it's my opinion. Sorry, but no, that's not how it's working. If I said that, I'd be defaming you, and would probably get banned from the boards, and it would be justified.

You didn't say that you "feel cheated", or that their methods "are unfair". You accused them of fraud, plain and simple, of conning people out of their money.

Third, you have no idea who I am, or anything about my character.

Oh, I have some ideas.


You know, I don't even care any more. That's the last I heard of you. Meet my ignore list.

 

[Pielorinho]

You know, I don't even care any more. That's the last I heard of you. Meet my ignore list.

Moderator's Notes
Kae Yoss, you are out of line in this post and your last one to was. I'm giving you a three-day ban; during this ban, I am asking you to review the rules for the board and the sticky at the top of this forum.

Everyone else, please stay on subject; and if you see posts that you think violate the forum rules, please report them rather than responding to them.

Daniel

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

In general, if a product can be profitable a business will produce it or carry it.

Agreed, assuming the cost to enter the market isn't too great.

However, I think what you'll also find is that companies will try to maximize their profits by concentrating on the minis that sell best and dropping the rest. That might be okay for a time, but after a while you'll notice how the variety of minis is sorely lacking and it'll be next to impossible to get that weird mini that you really want/need.

Personally, I hate the fact that DDMs are random. That's why I don't buy very many retail. Pretty much 95% of my purchases are from the secondary market, and probably 95% of those are from Ebay. I have over 2,000 DDMs now and usually in quite high numbers of duplicates (which I want). Those minis I don't like I never buy so at least I have the advantage of having pretty close to 2,000 minis that I actually want and will use, rather than 2,000 minis of which only half I really want.

As for what's missing, I'd like to see them branch out into non-creature minis. Stuff like siege weapons, wagons, room furnishings, etc. The currently available market for such minis is simply cost-prohibitive, IMHO. Taking such a course of action would allow WotC to further corner the market and draw in more fantasy mini seekers. I know I don't even bother looking at Warhammer minis anymore b/c there's simply no way to justify paying $30-50 for 15-20 "common" minis. Maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow, but you'll definitely see some fallout for other mini companies as a result of WotC's success with the DDMs.

 

[DamionW]

I'll quote Merric's Law of Miniatures again.: "Non-Random Packaging, Cheap Prices, and a Large Range of Figures: Choose two."

You know, for the number of times this has been posted, it would be nice if WotC marketed a product that chose the first two instead of the latter two. It wouldn't even have to fall under the DnD Minis brand name to avoid offending the skirmisher/collector market. Call them "Dungeons and Dragons: The RPG. 1 inch scale props" for all I care. I don't need fifty variants of each humanoid race/class combination to be satisfied. I'd settle for 1 medium and 1 small race figure for each main class in the PHB, and a set of generic figures for each monster race. One "orc" figure, and possibly an "orc leader" figure to head up a warband. A simple humanoid "skeleton/zombie" figure which has a roughly humanoid shape with flesh on some parts and bones exposed on others. One generic "giant" figure.

You get the idea. I don't need fifty variations of "Orc from the Glittering Sword tribe" or "Excorcist of the Silver Flame" or "Arrowhawk, now in ELDER size!" to match every possible PrC or every monster from any source. I'll give up that third tenet of Merric's Law just to have some simple, reliable figures to purchase in order to play out battles for the RPG rather than collect and skirmish like a CCG. It would be in a product line like this where you could include stuff like scenery or spell effects because it has nothing to do with the skirmishing game but is useful to the RPG. Obviously those would only come later after the basic market of adventurers and monsters could be tested for market utility, but it would break away from the idea these are meant to be collectible.

I'd even settle for reduced detail and quality. You want to distinguish your Medium size fighter character from the guy next to you who's playing? Get some miniature paint and change his armor from silver colored to red colored, or go out and try and to get one of the collectible DnD Mini brand. However, don't deprive the basic DnD RPG DM from having a reliable product to populate his battlespace with just to make the only product line a collectible one.