D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[Imaro]

unfortunately that is he case.

Just buy the 2014 DMG instead of the 2024 and you'll be all good.

 

[Imaro]

Except most of the other optional rules have been removed, so the bastions system feels out of place IMO. They changed the purpose of the DMG but still have this proud nail to use as a selling point for players.

No it doesnt feel out of place it's part of worldbuilding and campaign design... all under the purview of the DM.

Edit: What felt out of place was the "optional" feats stuck smack in the middle of the main rulebook for the game, accessible to players regardless of whether the DM wanted them in their campaign or not.

 

[Maxperson]

Isn’t that what charm monster is for though?

Sure, but now instead of being able to charm a base goblin at 1st level when you're very likely to meet them, you can't do so until you are 7th level and in many campaigns, beyond something as simple as goblin threats.

 

[Imaro]

Sure, but now instead of being able to charm a base goblin at 1st level when you're very likely to meet them, you can't do so until you are 7th level and in many campaigns, beyond something as simple as goblin threats.

Bounded accuracy and variant monster stat blocks will help with this.

 

[grimmgoose]

It's an optional system the DM decides whether to include that is mainly utilized by players... which is exactly what many of the optional rules in 2014 were. The point is it's optional and has campaign wide ramifications... so yeah the DMG seems like the right place.

The main difference, as I see it, is that the optional rules in the 2014 version had several points of DM interaction.

Changing the amount of Rests is directly tied to how a DM runs the game; Flanking (regardless of how well it was implemented) has a direct influence on how a DM will run monsters.

Bastions require the DM to act as a waiter. "Hey players, do you want to use Bastions?" "Yes." "Okay, here's the menu. Tell me if there's anything you need!"

I should be clear - I do think the 2024 DMG is an improvement over the 2014 DMG. I don't think it's a contest. I do think mistakes were made. Specifically - Bastions over monster creation (to bring it back to this topic).

 

[Micah Sweet]

No it doesnt feel out of place it's part of worldbuilding and campaign design... all under the purview of the DM.

Edit: What felt out of place was the "optional" feats stuck smack in the middle of the main rulebook for the game, accessible to players regardless of whether the DM wanted them in their campaign or not.

Making them optional was a marketing gimmick anyway. I certainly never saw them that way.

 

[mamba]

Just buy the 2014 DMG instead of the 2024 and you'll be all good.

that is missing the point, I am sure WotC would like everyone to buy both books, but then they should keep the 2014 one in print too…

 

[Imaro]

The main difference, as I see it, is that the optional rules in the 2014 version had several points of DM interaction.

Some did... some didn't. What were the many points of DM interaction for using Honor... or Hero Points... or how about any of the proficiency variants. You're selectively choosing options to fit your narrative.

Changing the amount of Rests is directly tied to how a DM runs the game; Flanking (regardless of how well it was implemented) has a direct influence on how a DM will run monsters.

See above.

Bastions require the DM to act as a waiter. "Hey players, do you want to use Bastions?" "Yes." "Okay, here's the menu. Tell me if there's anything you need!"

Well if your players treat you as a waiter I feel sorry for you. On the other hand I plan on collaborating with my players on their bastion as well as homebrewung a few options I want them to have for it.

I should be clear - I do think the 2024 DMG is an improvement over the 2014 DMG. I don't think it's a contest. I do think mistakes were made. Specifically - Bastions over monster creation (to bring it back to this topic).

And I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted but after ignoring the 2014 rules for monster creation and seeing nothing but complaints about them... I'm glad they gave us a new tool to play with.

 

[Imaro]

Making them optional was a marketing gimmick anyway. I certainly never saw them that way.

Seeing as the game functioned fine without them... I think it was more than marketing gimmick. Also... I'm not sure what relevance what you personally saw them as has on whether they were a marketing gimmick or not....

 

[Imaro]

that is missing the point, I am sure WotC would like everyone to buy both books, but then they should keep the 2014 one in print too…

You can still buy it and by the time it's unavailable we may have a book of options replacing it... it could be available via DM's Guild or some other method. The point is if you really want those options in a DMG they are easy to get a hold of.