D&D 5E D&D Next weekly art column!

[Scribble]

Well, assuming that their product was more readily available(there are probably twice as many wireless sales stores as there are bookstores and gaming stores combined in my city), considerably more portable, required for many aspects of daily life, incredibly cheaper over both the short and long term, and gave you all sorts of free stuff they'd tricked you into thinking you wanted while only making you pay for a few, but very useful items, Wizards would probably have broken into just about every market pertaining to gaming known to mankind, and possibly invented a few new ones.

Dungeons and Dragons action figures! Dungeons and Dragons cereal! Dungeons and Dragons toilet paper! Dungeons and Dragons the flamethrower!

Huh?

All I'm saying is I'd like to have a D&D doodad in a similar vein to how I have an Android doodad.

 

[Sunseeker]

Huh?

All I'm saying is I'd like to have a D&D doodad in a similar vein to how I have an Android doodad.

I know, I'm simply saying that Wizards doesn't make enough money for that for the various reasons I listed.

 

[Scribble]

I know, I'm simply saying that Wizards doesn't make enough money for that for the various reasons I listed.

I don't agree I guess- What does money have to do with it?

Back in the day white wolf came out with those clan pins for the different vampire clans. I bought one of them... Don't remember which malkavian maybe? It was fun to wear it and get a reaction from people "in the know." I doubt anyone would say White Wolf had the same money as cell phone companies.

I'd say it's simply because they don't have a pictorial mark to make into a doodad in the first place.

 

[Klaus]

A new article goes live today. This one is about the Consume, Engage and Cherish motivations in D&D.

Based on the comments already flooding the D&D website, Everyone seems to be in agreement (overall) that core books are about consumption for the most part. What do you see as a product that might fulfill your "cherish" motivations. Myself, I want a really fun and cool vinyl of the ultimate orc, dragon or beholder. You?

And what would be your ultimate "engage" experience? I'd be into a D&D themed roller coaster...

IMHO, Consume is a big part of it, but Engage can't be overlooked. The Cherish part will be provided during use, because the product will be linked to the memories of the games it is featured in. Which means that the product needs to be there, at the table, to be thumbed through, referenced and and otherwise made present.

My "Cherish" ideal? D&D action figures and monsters, in a style similar to Fischer-Price's Imaginext line, allowing kids to create their own stories set in the worlds of D&D before even being old enough to read the rulebooks.

"Engage"? D&D movie or TV series.

 

[Scribble]

IMHO, Consume is a big part of it, but Engage can't be overlooked. The Cherish part will be provided during use, because the product will be linked to the memories of the games it is featured in. Which means that the product needs to be there, at the table, to be thumbed through, referenced and and otherwise made present

Completely agree here... Case in point my red box copy of Basic D&D (the one with the Otus picture on the front.)

It's laid out prettyy clearly, the charts and tables and rules are pretty easy to "consume" but interspersed with weird illustrations and game play descriptive content which totally engaged me and got my imagination moving from the very first moment I opened it.

It's one of my most "cherished" books- I'll always remember sitting in the back of my parents car staring at the illustration of the various weapons, before I ever had any idea what each of them was...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I know, I'm simply saying that Wizards doesn't make enough money for that for the various reasons I listed.

Eh, shwag is CHEAP and EASY to put together. I can get you almost any little doodad like that set up with a couple emails and a chat or two with the guy that does it. Costs you a few bucks for setup and whatnot, but it is really amazingly cheap and easy. That's why you have so much of it being given away at cons. Even if you go for a bit higher quality product you're talking 1/100th of the cost of producing something like a book and per-unit prices south of a buck.

 

[Sunseeker]

Eh, shwag is CHEAP and EASY to put together. I can get you almost any little doodad like that set up with a couple emails and a chat or two with the guy that does it. Costs you a few bucks for setup and whatnot, but it is really amazingly cheap and easy. That's why you have so much of it being given away at cons. Even if you go for a bit higher quality product you're talking 1/100th of the cost of producing something like a book and per-unit prices south of a buck.

Well then I'll rephrase to that that it certainly seems like Wizards is lacking the funds for it. Could all just be disinformation though, considering they're owned by one of the biggest toy companies in the world, I'd think that'd make it even easier.

 

[Arytiss]

As others have said. While the consumption is necessary for a core book, don't underestimate the importance of engagement. This is a game where we're playing heroes/villains out to conquer/save the world. A book will need to be able to carry off that idea to the players - the idea that you can do almost anything. Consumption isn't really the ideal way to do that.

 

[Jon Schindehette]

As others have said. While the consumption is necessary for a core book, don't underestimate the importance of engagement. This is a game where we're playing heroes/villains out to conquer/save the world. A book will need to be able to carry off that idea to the players - the idea that you can do almost anything. Consumption isn't really the ideal way to do that.

If the definition of "Engage" is creating an immersive experience. If a core book were, and I'm not saying this is the case, nothing but crunch - is there an engaging experience?

It seems to me that you have to at least has some story and world flavor in order to even attempt to "engage" someone.

Am I missing a component of engagement when it comes to Crunch?

 

[TwinBahamut]

If the definition of "Engage" is creating an immersive experience. If a core book were, and I'm not saying this is the case, nothing but crunch - is there an engaging experience?

It seems to me that you have to at least has some story and world flavor in order to even attempt to "engage" someone.

Am I missing a component of engagement when it comes to Crunch?

Crunch certainly can be engaging, depending on person and the quality of the crunch. If nothing else, some people get really involved in the mechanical side of things, beyond considering them a set of rules to be referred to. Having really good depth to the game mechanics can help this form of engagement. In some ways, 4E can be pretty good for this kind of engagement, with the complex but not immediately obvious interplay between many of the powers and mechanics. Character Optimization types certainly found ways to be engaged by crunch in 3E.

From a different perspective, rules and crunch are just as valid a way to present an immersive experience as story or world flavor. For a game telling a story and creating an certain "feel" through rules and mechanics is essential, and a key aspect of what makes games different from novels or movies. Arguably, for a core rulebook they are far more important than anything way to present an immersive experience.

To relate some of what I mean... The absolute worst chapter of any book I have purchased from WotC was the Scientific Engineering chapter from d20 Future. That was something of a mess of a book no matter what way you look at it, but that chapter was far and away the worst. Why? Because it had no crunch. It just talked on and on about different ideas, and gave no real mechanics or even a suggestion of an implementation on how to use the ideas it talks about. I couldn't engage with it at all because it had no use to me. Anything mentioned in that chapter has no possible bearing on my experience with the game because it couldn't be used in the game.

On the other hand, if used well, mechanics can tell a great story even in the absence of other forms of storytelling. My favorite example of this is the D-Counter from the videogame Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter. Simply put, the main character in that game receives a power that is absolutely unmatched in raw might, but using it slowly kills him. In fact, just possessing the power means that he is going to die very soon, whether he uses it or not. And almost all of the "feel" of this certain doom is expressed through the game mechanic of the D-Counter, which slowly counts up until 100%, at which point it is Game Over and you need to restart from the beginning of the game. That mechanic alone tells half the story of the game, and sets a powerful emotional context for the story sequences.

So... yeah. For a game like D&D, story and fluff can completely fail to be engaging, and crunch can be very engaging. To be honest, I found some of the random references found in the power names of the Primal classes from the PHB2 to be more interesting and inspiring than more long-winded fluff pieces that filled many parts of the 4E books. That might be an issue of my one style of being engaged by fantasy and my own tastes in fluff, but I think it is relevant.