Dannager
First Post
What do you consider "published"? If you mean in-physical-print, then probably not. But I think we're moving past that. If "published" includes adventures published digitally, then the number is far higher than 25.
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D&D 5E D&D Next will succeed or die on the basis of its digital apps.
- Thread starter iwarrior-poet
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What do you consider "published"? If you mean in-physical-print, then probably not. But I think we're moving past that. If "published" includes adventures published digitally, then the number is far higher than 25.
S
Sunseeker
Guest
Lets flip this around.
I don't see the attraction to modules or adventures(beyond massive setting books), so I don't buy them. That however, doesn't have the fact that lots of people do and lots of people enjoy them and that Pathfinder has made a pretty good living supporting itsself primarily through Adventure Paths.
Some people don't see the attraction of digital tools, so they don't buy them. That however, doesn't change the fact that lots of people do and that they're an incredibly booming market which draws in everyone from ye-olde-mommy to young kids.
Not liking something is not the same as claiming it shouldn't exist or has no value. I don't like Adventure Paths, but their value is high and cannot be denied. Some folks don't like digital offerings, but their value is also high and that cannot be denied.
I realize this really isn't directly aimed at you Dannager...but the simple fact is that just because a person doesn't like a product and doesn't buy it, doesn't mean it's a bad or useless product. Making that delineation is clearly a problem here.
Li Shenron
Legend
Obviously I am not against WotC designing digital products, but if I have to bring my 2cp to the table, I have to say that I have never ever bought any digital products for D&D and I don't plan to buy any, so from my own point of view whatever WotC decides to do is irrelevant for me.
I think the only digital tools I ever used were the character builder which came with the 3.0 PHB (only a few times for designing my earliest NPCs) and the HTML SRDs. But I don't think I would pay for something like these, no matter how good, because fundamentally they are very optionals for me to enjoy the game.
edemaitre
Explorer
I have dozens, if not hundreds, of PDFs for various systems, and I've used several online utilities for game preparation. I also run virtual sessions on a weekly basis. Like other posters, however, I've had to discourage the use of laptops and smartphones at the face-to-face table because of the temptation of distraction.
Most of my current group prefers print sourcebooks (at least for core rules and worldbooks) to PDFs, and several of us actively support Kickstarter projects with Lulu print-on-demand components. I do think tablets allow for more portable reference -- I once regularly carried milk crates full of books across New York City's subways -- but the game's the thing. Shared narration, a social experience, and the tactile nature of dice and miniatures are what still distinguish RPGs from MMOs.
My hope for D&D Next and the next generation of tabletop RPGs is that they allow for the use of software aids but that the rules aren't so complicated that they require constant reference, whether face-to-face or online.
Most of my current group prefers print sourcebooks (at least for core rules and worldbooks) to PDFs, and several of us actively support Kickstarter projects with Lulu print-on-demand components. I do think tablets allow for more portable reference -- I once regularly carried milk crates full of books across New York City's subways -- but the game's the thing. Shared narration, a social experience, and the tactile nature of dice and miniatures are what still distinguish RPGs from MMOs.
My hope for D&D Next and the next generation of tabletop RPGs is that they allow for the use of software aids but that the rules aren't so complicated that they require constant reference, whether face-to-face or online.
Sekhmet
First Post
You know, I have a couple of white boards that I write these things out on.
Takes a couple of seconds, everyone is is connected via ocular, aural, and vocal organs, and can freely rectify any mistakes with the stroke of the corrective tool.
D&D has been interconnected for years. Why does it need another platform of connectivity?
Takes a couple of seconds, everyone is is connected via ocular, aural, and vocal organs, and can freely rectify any mistakes with the stroke of the corrective tool.
D&D has been interconnected for years. Why does it need another platform of connectivity?
delericho
Legend
The key is subscriptions. For 4e, that took the form of DDI subscriptions. For Pathfinder, it is primarily Adventure Path subscriptions, although of course Paizo offer a variety of subscriptions covering almost all their products.
5e will need to offer something that large numbers of people will subscribe to. Achieve that, and they secure the future of the game - with effectively guaranteed income, and frees them up to produce the products they want to produce, rather than the ones they have to produce because only splatbooks guarantee the required X sales.
Really good online tools is perhaps the most likely way to acquire and then keep those subscriptions. But it's not the only way. And, of course, if the game itself isn't what people want, the best digital tools in the world won't save it.
5e will need to offer something that large numbers of people will subscribe to. Achieve that, and they secure the future of the game - with effectively guaranteed income, and frees them up to produce the products they want to produce, rather than the ones they have to produce because only splatbooks guarantee the required X sales.
Really good online tools is perhaps the most likely way to acquire and then keep those subscriptions. But it's not the only way. And, of course, if the game itself isn't what people want, the best digital tools in the world won't save it.
delericho
Legend
On the subject of electronics at the game table...
I played one 4e game where the DM and two of the other players each had a laptop at the table, and I absolutely hated it. It wasn't even the possibility of distraction that was the problem - it was that the screens put barriers up at the table. Of course, the DM's screen has a long pedigree, but barriers between players was a really bad thing. I wouldn't care to repeat that again.
However, I genuinely believe that the iPad and iPhone represent game-changers in this area. They're small enough not to take up huge amounts of desktop space, they can be held in a single hand, and they lie flat and so don't create barriers. And a good electronic encyclopedia of the game (such as the DDI Compendium or the 3e SRD) is much quicker to access than a pile of several books. (I can still win the 'lookup' race using my books, but that's only because I don't allow many supplements, and pretty much know the layout of the 3.5e books back to front by now. I certainly wouldn't win in an "anything goes" game, nor any other edition/game but D&D 3.5e.)
I don't think every RPG now requires electronic support. But I do think that any big RPG (that is, big in terms of RPGs
) will at the very least need to release everything in PDF and/or eBook formats (probably both), and probably needs to actually go a step further even than that, and make electronic character sheets/managers, "Compendium" apps, and the like available. Too many people now prefer the electronic versions, and they have too many alternative games to play, to manage without, IMO. And that trend will only ever move in one direction.
I played one 4e game where the DM and two of the other players each had a laptop at the table, and I absolutely hated it. It wasn't even the possibility of distraction that was the problem - it was that the screens put barriers up at the table. Of course, the DM's screen has a long pedigree, but barriers between players was a really bad thing. I wouldn't care to repeat that again.
However, I genuinely believe that the iPad and iPhone represent game-changers in this area. They're small enough not to take up huge amounts of desktop space, they can be held in a single hand, and they lie flat and so don't create barriers. And a good electronic encyclopedia of the game (such as the DDI Compendium or the 3e SRD) is much quicker to access than a pile of several books. (I can still win the 'lookup' race using my books, but that's only because I don't allow many supplements, and pretty much know the layout of the 3.5e books back to front by now. I certainly wouldn't win in an "anything goes" game, nor any other edition/game but D&D 3.5e.)
I don't think every RPG now requires electronic support. But I do think that any big RPG (that is, big in terms of RPGs
) will at the very least need to release everything in PDF and/or eBook formats (probably both), and probably needs to actually go a step further even than that, and make electronic character sheets/managers, "Compendium" apps, and the like available. Too many people now prefer the electronic versions, and they have too many alternative games to play, to manage without, IMO. And that trend will only ever move in one direction.
Subscriptions are the biggest obstacle to growing the game: if DDN requires subscriptions in order to do basic, essential things in the game (like character creation, as was the case in 4e) in addition to requiring a huge investment up front, it will not be competitive in the marketplace.
If subscription based tools are de facto necessary, then they shouldn't exist: they are worse than neutral, they are detrimental since they constitute another barrier for entry.
Different tables will treat ipads at the table differently, and I can see value in some, indeed many, electronic tools. But if I need to subscribe to play effectively, then DDN becomes another curiosity, and nothing more.
Blackwarder
Adventurer
I think that D&D will succeed or fail on the rules, and how the game play.
I do however would prefer to have a dedicated app for my iPad for the rule books and adventures that will be more useable than simple PDFs.
Warder
I do however would prefer to have a dedicated app for my iPad for the rule books and adventures that will be more useable than simple PDFs.
Warder
3catcircus
Adventurer
As a DM, the single most useful digital product they could offer would be a chargen program as customizable as pcgen but extremely simple to add to. Something that would allow me to enter a feat or prestige class or an old monster that hasn't been converted, and let me do so without needing to learn a programming language. Right now I use pcgen for pathfinder but it is still difficult to try and convert anything since I have no clue where to start with lst files and the available info stinks. If I had the ability to take a 1e or 2e or 3e item and instantly convert it to 5e just by entering it in its original format and having the software give me some choices for stuff that may not have been there in earlier editions (such as picking feats for a 1e NPC), I'd switch to 5e in an instant.
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