D&D 5E D&D Next will succeed or die on the basis of its digital apps.

[El Mahdi]

deleted

 

[vegaserik01]

Well-crafted digital tools wouldn't take away from the "game and experience" any more than a pencil and paper would.

Unless your definition of "game and experience" literally requires a pencil and paper, that is. I think that there are more important things to focus on.

Everybody typing away at their respective laptops/pads certainly take away from the game experience for me. Digital tools would be nothing more then bells and whistles - not needed in the least bit for any rpg to be successful unless it was so complicated you had to use apps.

If people want them they should make them ... but it's not needed to be successful. I started playing in 1979 ... hardly needed anything like that then or now.

 

[iwarrior-poet]

Everybody typing away at their respective laptops/pads certainly take away from the game experience for me. Digital tools would be nothing more then bells and whistles - not needed in the least bit for any rpg to be successful unless it was so complicated you had to use apps.

If people want them they should make them ... but it's not needed to be successful. I started playing in 1979 ... hardly needed anything like that then or now.

Vegaserik--I am an older gamer myself and I like books+dice+group interaction. But new gamers will expect/want/be psyched about apps. I believe apps (particularly for smartphones, could add to play rather than detract. You look at your phone's screen for a few secs to check stats, then get back to the game. Whereas laptops with their larger screens and innate physical barriers detract from interactions.

 

[Remathilis]

D&D Next Needs Core Rule + Expansion 3.0. A stand-alone program that can generate maps, monsters, encounter, PCs, NPCs and custom made items, gods and spells, and organize it all well. It doesn't need online play components, virtual tabletops, character image makers, or any other garbage like that.

Why WotC insisted twice with mudding a basic campaign organizer and char generator with all these online bells and whistles is beyond me.

 

[Obryn]

Everybody typing away at their respective laptops/pads certainly take away from the game experience for me. Digital tools would be nothing more then bells and whistles - not needed in the least bit for any rpg to be successful unless it was so complicated you had to use apps.

If people want them they should make them ... but it's not needed to be successful. I started playing in 1979 ... hardly needed anything like that then or now.

I started playing in 1981 or 1982, and I like adding technology to my game.

I like kind of complicated mechanics, but I also like to pay attention to the story and narrative. Technology lets me do both pretty easily.

-O

 

[vegaserik01]

Vegaserik--I am an older gamer myself and I like books+dice+group interaction. But new gamers will expect/want/be psyched about apps. I believe apps (particularly for smartphones, could add to play rather than detract. You look at your phone's screen for a few secs to check stats, then get back to the game. Whereas laptops with their larger screens and innate physical barriers detract from interactions.

I understand completely - I just don't think they'll make Next live or die. I'm all for pdf's, and the character builder's and other programs like that. I use them myself, both WotC and Hero Lab's, and I've used my Kindle Fire during character generation loaded with the game book pdf. Heck my old group used a laptop hooked up to a projector mounted from the ceiling to project maps down to the playing surface for several games and it worked okay, except a lot of time was spent trying to re-size the maps, use fog of war and other stuff like that. We ended up not using it anymore and just going with battlemaps and hand drawn maps on the Chessex map.

They could add to play, my experience however has been the opposite when the gaming starts.

 

[Stormonu]

I don't think iwarrior-poet was saying that WotC should do this themselves. I agree that WotC's track record with digital products they personally produce is absolutely abysmal. They should, most assuredly, contract this out.

Sadly, WotC's had worse luck with farming it out. May I point to the original e-tools fiasco?

 

[Dice4Hire]

Sadly, WotC's had worse luck with farming it out. May I point to the original e-tools fiasco?

Not really the same thing. Farming Out means (at least to me) they are in charge of the whole project beginning to end.

Having a 3rd party develop it would be WOTc approving, but the 3rd party being free to make it their way.

 

[Obryn]

Sadly, WotC's had worse luck with farming it out. May I point to the original e-tools fiasco?

Also, for what it's worth, WotC takes too damn long with their digital tools, but both the original character builder and (finally, after way too long) the online one are very professional, well-made pieces of software.

-O

 

[the Jester]

You see, I expect the same would happen in any ongoing 3.x or Pathfinder game, too, especially when you get to what in 4e would be "paragon" tier.

That's certainly possible. I never had trouble figuring out that stuff, but I handle math pretty well compared to many people, and since we never ever used a digital CB in my 3e experience, we never had a chance to check it.

I can't speak to Pathfinder, as I haven't played it.

When it comes down to it, 4e's math is a lot lighter and more visible due to easier stacking rules.

This is probably true; I remember making epic level 3.5 bad guys and the math got really, really messy (attack values derived from base creature, advancement, class levels, size modifier, feats, ability bonuses... it's easy to miss stuff!). And God save me from trying to accurately figure out an advanced, epic-level wizard's skill points proper (tracking when his Int bonus was what, guessing on what magic items he had when, etc)... aargh.

Then again, it was totally satisfying looking at my completed (f'rexample) half-dragon shadow human wizard 16/archmage 3/custom prestige class 4, and the act of creating it was extraordinarily enjoyable... even if it took hours and the npc/monster in question might die before he ever got to act. Likewise, making a high-level pc from scratch was fun but could take a ton of time if you wanted to research interesting options.

On the DM side, it's way easier - no modifiers for size or ability scores, simple formulas for attack/defense/damage ...

I am not arguing that 4e is super-simple or excessively easy to track. It's not. I'm saying it's not a meaningful distinction between 3e and 4e, so it puzzles me whenever it comes up. It's certainly not been in my experience - as I've said, I found HeroForge downright mandatory between skill points, feats, etc.

Again, agreed on the easier dming- that is probably my favorite aspect of 4e (and I love a lot of things about 4e- just ran my game last night!).

Like ... spells in 3.x? Or any of the more flavorful feats you'd expect out of any higher-level fighter type; a few from PF have been noted? Or class features? I can fit a high-Paragon Knight, Slayer, Scout, or Elementalist onto a single double-sided sheet pretty easily, complete with everything the player needs to know.

-O

Yeah, a lot like those things. But see, you highlight one of the things about 4e at the end there- until the relatively simple Essentials class builds, it was pretty hard to manage a single sheet of paper character sheet that told you everything that you needed to know in order to make good choices in combat. Those builds have done an amazing job of alleviating that particular weakness, but until they came out there weren't many good options for a player who wants that single sheet of paper instead of a bunch of pages and/or cards.

Regardless, your point is a good one, and it's quite possible that the entire reason I never felt the same sense about 3e digital tools was that (other than the CD in the initial release of the PH) I never looked at any of them. Maybe all the characters in my 3e game had the same litter of errors as the 4e party; it's quite possible.