D&D (2024) D&D playtest feed back report, UA8

[OB1]

I was trying to think how you could do a class similar to the druid portrayed in the recent D&D movie and I just couldn't come up with adequate alterations in power with levels gained. It seemed to be a "Change into any animal any time as often as you like, and that's it" type thing. You could of course put some level limits on it, but it's not really enough to make a complete class out of it. Nor did it seem to mesh well with spells. It's a melee combat class that isn't really about magical spells.

Well, they did add the ability to expend spell slots to Wildshape at level 5, giving you 11 Wildshapes w/o a short rest at that level. And given the popularity of Doric shifting to an Owlbear in the movie and the popularity of the Owlbear Druid form in BG3, I'd be willing to bet that Owlbears are going to be in the PHB as a beast, along with a few other treats for higher level Moon Druids.

Much of the Druid's final satisfaction I think is going to depend on the beast appendix in the PHB, and I'd be willing to bet that it will be beyond satisfactory for most Druid players.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I really do not see how something like the CR system or any other encounter building system or even monster math could be usefully designed using the UA system. The vast majority of people responding to the UA have never played any of the material. At least that would be my best guess. Even those that have managed some play test the most of them would only have managed a one shot with a couple of encounters.
This would not at all be like the kind of data from a proper test program.

 

[Quickleaf]

Is the UA8 wildshape not using the PC’s HP and PB?

What else would you need for the wolf to stay usable? Spend a spell slot for scaling magical damage dice on attacks?

UA8 Wildshape uses "Known Forms" which are beast stat blocks that will be included in the PHB. It has the same Max CR and Fly Speed restrictions as 2014 PHB. The key difference is you maintain your proficiency bonus and your Hit Points, just gaining temporary HP when you Wildshape equal to your druid level.

And guess what's NOT included in UA8 – what those beast stat blocks will look like! Amazing. Right now, we're assuming they look like the stat blocks in the 2014 PHB or 2014 MM.

When I read it, immediately I imagined those Summon Shadow / Summon Fey spells from TCoE that require reworking the maths as you level – basically it's ideal for an online play environment where those maths are offloaded to the application.

 

[Quickleaf]

Well, yes, they have always made it clear that is what UA is: to test the marketability of options. If people don't like a particular ular option, they cut it or try something else. All it ever has been or been represented as being. Nothing cynical about that.

the internal network, which mind you is huge, is what they use for rigorous testing.

The newencounter stuff is targeting the same numbers as the old stuff, so there really isn't anything to temperature test.

I would love for them to share what has changed in their internal testing process and what it being more "rigorous" now than it was during 2014 or production of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything looks like exactly.

 

[Parmandur]

I would love for them to share what has changed in their internal testing process and what it being more "rigorous" now than it was during 2014 or production of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything looks like exactly.

I don't know that it has, though they have more time now than they did in 2014: worth noting that they aren't starting on the MM and DMG after the PHB, all three have been in copeoductuon for years now, amd their internal playtesting group is hundred if not thousands of people.

 

[Quickleaf]

I don't know that it has, though they have more time now than they did in 2014: worth noting that they aren't starting on the MM and DMG after the PHB, all three have been in copeoductuon for years now, amd their internal playtesting group is hundred if not thousands of people.

That's a great number of people. I think we've been in a similar place before though? Where they had lots of internal playtesters...and the outcome wasn't ideal? That's why the transparency of process is so important (at least for me). Because my instinct upon reading stuff coming from WotC over the past years is that there have been gaps or flaws in the process they use for playtesting. And I see that reflected also in the questions they do not ask in their playtest surveys.

 

[Parmandur]

That's a great number of people. I think we've been in a similar place before though? Where they had lots of internal playtesters...and the outcome wasn't ideal? That's why the transparency of process is so important (at least for me). Because my instinct upon reading stuff coming from WotC over the past years is that there have been gaps or flaws in the process they use for playtesting. And I see that reflected also in the questions they do not ask in their playtest surveys.

UA has never covered Monsters, there may have been one fir the Xanathar's Wncounter guidelines that apparently undergird the new approach.

The thing is, they aren't creating new systems that target different numbers: they are designing tools to more consistently hit the numbers. They don't need "Does this spark joy?" feedback for that, theu need detailed playtesting.

 

[mamba]

What is the CR of a quickling? Is it 1 like VGtM says or 3 like the DMG maths say?

It is and remains CR 1, and it might be adjusted to better reflect that CR, as mentioned

Will a 2024 hobgoblin hit like a 2014 hobgoblin?

it will hit in accordance with its CR

Why are they (WotC) upturning higher CR monsters to be more threatening if there’s nothing wrong with them?

because they are improving their math / formula, so the monsters match the CR better

I strongly disagree with you.

feel free to, I still disagree with you too

 

[Quickleaf]

UA has never covered Monsters, there may have been one fir the Xanathar's Wncounter guidelines that apparently undergird the new approach.

Yes, there was a 2016 UA on encounter building prior to XGtE's publication in November 2017. I don't recall the month it was released in 2016, but there was over a year of lead-time between the UA and XGTE's publication.

The thing is, they aren't creating new systems that target different numbers: they are designing tools to more consistently hit the numbers. They don't need "Does this spark joy?" feedback for that, theu need detailed playtesting.

There have been substantial changes, so I'm not 100% sure they don't also need proof-of-concept playtesting – e.g. maybe certain weapon traits add great amounts of handling time against certain monsters? I don't know, I stopped following the playtests as closely because none of my feedback – I echoed a lot what Teos Abadia said, if you're familiar with his work – seemed to be getting incorporated.

But we absolutely agree that they need detailed playtesting.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

It's absolutely mind boggling to me. Please, someone help me understand?

I'm here for you, but I am not sure what you are confused about. What do you need help with understanding? Or, perhaps more importantly, why do you need to understand?